To those of you who responded, you all had most interesting thoughts. I thought about it more and now would like to ask this:

by kes152 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • kes152
  • The Quiet One
    The Quiet One

    Try posting again, we'll be glad to reply :)

  • AGuest

    Greetings, dear kes... and the greatest of love and peace to you! I did not see your earlier post and so did not respond to your question, but would like to do so here, if that's okay. You asked, what is sin?

    There are four (4) kinds of "sin" (one fleshly, three spiritual):

    1. First and foremost is sin in the flesh, which is the corruption we hold in our bodies, the vessel of flesh with its blood (which holds our spirit, the essence of who we are, individually). That corruption is WHY we get sick, age, and die. We inherited that sin from Adham, by means of the "long garment of skin" and ITS blood, which he received as a result of HIS spiritual sin. This is first because there is nothing we can do about it. It is inherent and genetic, and so is what it is.

    2. Second, there is sin that is the result of going against our own consciences (a sin of the spirit). Meaning, something may not be "unlawful"... or illegal... but we KNOW is not beneficial, but do anway. ("All things are lawful, but not all things are advantageous"). And example of this is eating meat when doing so would cause your brother to "stumble." Love for your brother and HIS good conscience should prevail... if not eating such meat is not detrimental to YOUR life. This is third because it is usually sin against another that one is not necessarily (or usually) aware of committing because they don't REALIZE they've done anything wrong (because what they did, although perhaps a stumbling block for another, was lawful/legal).

    3. The third, which is the most common and insidious kind of sin (another sin of the spirit), which is anything that we KNOWINGLY... and often WILLINGLY... do "against" God and/or our fellowman. Things like idolatry, adultery, murder, covetousness, betrayal, disloyalty, jealousy... and like things... which cause us to either do harm to others (including God), directly or indirectly, but knowingly, or lead others to do such harm. This is second because it is the most common type of sin... and most are aware when they commit it, but usually justify it in their own hearts/mind, if not dismiss it's error altogether. For many, though, this is the sin that "ruins" their consciences, the sin that they have the hardest time moving past, getting over, asking forgiveness for, and/or forgiving themselves for. As a result, their lives are often also ruined, as can be that of another.

    4. The fourth and final sin, which is also a sin of the spirit... is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit... and holy spirit.

    The first kind of sin cannot be helped; there is nothing we can do about it - we are both WITH it, because it is inculcated in our bodies, and so is inherent and genetic. We can do something about the second and third, however. For the second, it is a matter of being aware of others' weakness of conscience (WANTING to be aware), which requires seeing them in the light of love... and being WILLING to deny oneself something one can lawfully/legally have/do... for the sake of that other one.

    The third is a little more tricky: usually it is simply a matter of making a personal choice (we have NO choice with the first, although we can avoid/delay some of the effects). We can CHOOSE, though... NOT to worship other gods, commit adultery, murder, covet our brother's/neighbor's whatever, NOT to betray another or be jealous, to BE loyal... etc. Unfortunately, though, because we DO reside in vessels that have sin IN them... those vessels sometimes have weaknesses and "desires" of their own that are stronger than the strengths and "desires" of our spirit (i.e., "the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak"). In such cases, we sometimes do that which we don't WANT to do. We "give in" so that our spiritual "desires" become the same as our physical "desires". Then, when those desires accomplish the act, sin has been committed.

    THANKFULLY, though... while we await alleviation of the FIRST kind of sin (sin of the flesh)... which will be accomplished through the putting off the flesh (the corrupted body with its own blood)... and putting ON the "white robe" (the INCORRUPTIBLE body, with holy spirit, GOD'S blood as its blood)... we can ask for and receive forgiveness for the first two of the others. And if we do so ask... IN FAITH (meaning having the ASSURED EXPECTATION that such forgiveness has been granted or is forthcoming... because we received some EVIDENCE of that (either heard or seen))... and then proceed on in our lives in a way that DEMONSTRATES that faith... then such sins ARE forgiven. We can go our way IN PEACE... with a cleansed conscience.

    That does NOT mean, however, simply saying (to oneself or others) "Well, I've been forgiven and so there's nothing else for me to do"). It means FORGIVING OTHERS THEIR SINS. Because one receives mercy and forgiveness for SHOWING mercy and forgiveness. That, then, is how one DEMONSTRATES their faith in their OWN forgiveness. Because if one does not forgive others their sins... one cannot EXPECT to BE forgiven their own.

    Finally, there is no forgiveness for the fourth kind of sin, generally. However, the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, is merciful... and shows forgiveness to whomever HE wishes to show it. Therefore, even if someone DOES blaspheme against the Holy Spirit (the glorified Son of God, JAHESHUA, His Chosen/Anointed One)... is it not upon any of us (man) to judge or condemn that one. That right belongs to JAH, alone... because although He gave the right to His Son... that Son, in his humility and submissiveness... gave it back to Him.

    I hope this helps answer your question and, again, peace to you!

    YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,


  • Billzfan23

    There are actually 5, you forgot the sin that goes with the sin, cos, and tan SMILE.....

    -sin, cos and tan.

  • AGuest

    Well, shoot, dear Billy (peace to you!), if we're going that far, I also left out "sin"... that is the Spanish word for "without." (SMILE right back at'cha!)


    SA, on her own...

  • kes152

    My apologies to everyone. I tried to post last night but had computer issues. Here is what I wanted to ask Re: What is sin?

    Let's say a man decides to drink and then drive. No one is harmed physically as a result of him driving although he was under the influence of alcohol. Did this man sin and if so, at what point was he sinning? Is it still considered a sin although he did not physically harm anyone?

  • AGuest

    Drink what... how much... drive where... for what distance... and all under what other circumstances, dear kes (again, peace to you!)? Just kidding... sort of. You mean drink alcohol and drive, yes? Depends. Is he impaired? I mean, one guy can drink more than another and still be pretty lucid. On the another hand, some folks can't drink at all and so shouldn't. Whether they intend to drive or not. If one has drank to the point where they SHOULDN'T be driving, however (and everyone SHOULD know when that is for himself/herself... and NOT so knowing could in fact be a sin... because of the potential RISK of harm, even death, to another)... but then chooses to drive... one could very be sinning... against one's own conscience (he/she KNOWS better, but proceeds anyway).

    In addition, although such one may not INTEND to harm another (or, if impaired enough, may not even know)... one could still be said to have sinned (under No. 2).

    Say one knows they're snockered... but just doesn't care (and I don't mean they don't care because they're impaired, desperate, hysterical, mournful, suicidal, etc., but just don't give a dang at all). Potential sin under No. 3, yes, because they're just choosing to succumb to the desire of the flesh without any thought of wrong... without remorse... or without concern for forgiveness, etc.

    BUT... I have to ask as to all of these: so what? I mean, so they can harm so one and yes, that's terrible. Horrible, I do not deny. But that is also a crime, which the state is responsible for taking care of. I am curious, though, as to why any of us would be concerned with the SIN in this situation... or that someone committed such SIN. Because in looking at it this way, would we not risk also judging? Shouldn't the only sin any need be concerned with in this light be our OWN... while forgiving those of others... because, in some way or another, we ALL sin?

    So, while I am not excusing drunk driving (absolutely NOT! and thank goodness there IS the state to handle this in most of the world)... I am not sure why anyone would be concerned with this being a sin... anymore than anything else that constitutes sin (save blasphemy against the Spirit/holy spirit).

    Can you please clarify, why sin (beyond blasphemy against the Holy Spirit/holy spirit) is a concern?

    Thank you and, again, peace to you!

    YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,


  • hamsterbait

    Since no other person is involved lets replace the risky circumstance of driving with say, Walking upstairs to bed.

    You might fall and injure yourself on the way up, even get killed.

    You might slip in the bathroom before you go to bed.

    You might trip on the bedside rug and get killed banging your head on the bedside table.

    Have you sinned???

    This is the sort of question a religion like the Wtichtower babble and trash sickciety asks all the time.

    Is it any wonder we want to leave before we all go totally insane?


  • mrsjones5

    To me your question is more about integrity than sin.

    integrity [in-teg-ri-tee]


    1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.

    2. the state of being whole, entire, or undiminished: to preserve the integrity of the empire.

    3. a sound, unimpaired, or perfect condition: the integrity of a ship's hull.

    sin [sin]

    noun 1. transgression of divine law: the sin of Adam.

    2. any act regarded as such a transgression, especially a willful or deliberate violation of some religious or moral principle.

    3. any reprehensible or regrettable action, behavior, lapse, etc.; great fault or offense: It's a sin to waste time.

  • Fernando

    This was meant to be brief but I started sharing some of my exit story, and it turned into a thesis, again... Darn...


    In summary:

    When Jesus was on earth the only sinS he was preoccupied with and constantly spoke against were religious sinS (Matt 15 and 23 esp v15).

    Religionists however to hide their sinS are preoccupied with and constantly speak against sexual sinS plus a whole laundry list of do's and don'ts.

    SIN which is a much broader concept. SIN is dysfunction, aberrance, corruption, and decay.


    To spare this thread I started a new topic on "What is sin?" and put my part exit story and part rant there.

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