The Concept of "Increasing Light" Scenario

by ziddina 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  ziddina

  Cedars:

  Thanks Listener/AnnOMaly/Jim! Hopefully balance is slowly being restored to this thread!

  I'm not suggesting there is anything necessarily new in the Makeweight Scenario, it's just perhaps a different way of explaining it. I feel it also opens up a number of other questions for the open-minded, one such being:

  Isn't suggesting that the Holy Spirit would lie a blasphemy in itself, and therefore a sin against the Holy Spirit? What does the bible have to say about those who sin against the Holy Spirit?

  You could go on...
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  ziddina

  sizemik:

  Hopefully balance is slowly being restored to this thread!

  Hopefully cedars . . . Really mate . . . reading this thread made me think that this is what it must have been like for those around at the Tower of Babel. The only word I recognised that made any sense was F***k.

  The point of argument is a good one . . . but as you say . . . for the open minded.

  LWT's point is valid for the satisfied JW however . . .

  They are not capable. They have been stripped of the ability to even have any opinion on spiritual mattes. They follow orders from Mother.

  It's like filling a diesel with avgas . . . it's still high-grade fuel but the engine just won't fire.

  Isn't suggesting that the Holy Spirit would lie a blasphemy in itself, and therefore a sin against the Holy Spirit?

  Now that I like . . .
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  ziddina

  rebel8:

  I think the OP argument is a very good one.

  I think any argument posed to jws is of value limited to the very few who will listen, consider it and take action.

  [My personal preference is to put my energies into prevention instead. Bigger bang for my buck.]

  Wow, you sure do like to drop the F bombs. You sure do insult a lot of people. Jesus would hate that.

  He does! It makes him itch. Just look, he keeps scratching his neck.

  
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  cedars

  Not sure I'm entirely with you there PSacramento, for the following reason...

  The NT doesn't contradict the OT, whereas "new light" released by the society frequently contradicts old light. The Old Testament simply describes the dead as being conscious of nothing at all up to the Law being nailed to the stake by Christ, and even before Christ came there were those who believed in a resurrection at a future date. Christ obviously introduced a new convenant where faithful followers of his could join him in heaven once they died. The new covenant wasn't contradictory of the ancient Jewish concept of resurrection, it merely expounded on the subject. When the society introduces new teachings, particularly those related to prophecy, these are often entirely contradictory of previous teachings. The same cannot be said of the Bible itself. The picture is merely brought into focus, it isn't replaced with an entirely new picture of something altogether different.

  God is described in the bible as being the God of Truth, and there is no biblical precedent (unless you can specifically show us one) for him revealing a falsehood to his servants, only to replace it with truth at a later stage.
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  PSacramento

  cedars,

  THat was my point, sorry if it was a bit muddled.

  The bible shows a progressive revelation, not a correcting of errors persay, but an improvment in understanding. Like the example of what happens after we die that I gave.

  The new light of the WT is NOT that, but it seems to be what they are trying to aim for in thier "explanations".
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  No Room For George

  No! It is impossible for God to lie. http://biblos.com/hebrews/6-18.htm

  Holy spirit is Jehovah being revealed on Earth

  Jesus is Holy Spirit being manifest on Earth

  A lie < The Creator,

  A lie < The Holy Spirit

  A lie < Jesus.

  The "Bible Students" were they who imagined themslves < A lie.

  Because the scriptures make it very clear in so many ways that

  a person must be careful what "to eat".

  The thread might progress, but probably not, with scriptures of warning

  that there are dangers in what to believe (eat).

  spiritually speaking to eat=to believe.

  So the wolf did his duty to make the people afraid of eating anything at all.

  I'm kidding I'm kidding.....carry on.
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  cedars

  Thanks for clarifying PSacramento, I appreciate you adding another dimension to the argument, it certainly got me thinking! If nothing else it's interesting to figure out how you would counter possible objections to my original question.

  No Room For George - sheesh, you scared me there for a moment!
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  The Quiet One
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  The Quiet One

  http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/light-gets-brighter.php 'But with God there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning, and so it is with truth; any knowledge or light coming from God must be like its author. A new view of truth never can contradict a former truth. "New Light" never extinguishes older "light" but adds to it" Zion's Watch Tower 1881 February pp.3, 188' http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/superior-authorities.php 'Evil as these Gentile governments have been, they were permitted or "ordained of God" for a wise purpose. (Rom. 13:1) Studies In the Scriptures Series I - The Divine Plan of the Ages p.250 "The Superior Authorities are the Most High God Jehovah and his exalted Son Jesus Christ." This Means Everlasting Life (1950) p.197 "The Expression "superior authorities" means the political governments or authorities." Life everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God (1966) p.189'
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  Ding

  1. "Increasing light" doesn't explain shifts BACK to previous positions.

  For example, first the "authorities" of Romans 13 were earthly governments.

  Then that was changed to Jehovah and Jesus.

  Then that was changed back to earthly governments.

  2. "Increasing light" implies that the teachings have gotten more and more accurate; they haven't.

  Was the 1925 resurrection prediction more accurate than the 1914 "present war in Europe is Armageddon" statement?

  Was the 1941 prediction more accurate than the 1925 prediction?

  Was the 1975 prediction more accurate than the 1941 prediction?

  3. "Increasing light" can be claimed by any religious group to avoid accountability for its errors.

  No matter what the false teaching, anyone can cite "increasing light" and claim that God will eventually straighten them out.

  This claim is impossible to disprove.

  Instead of having its claims undercut by previous errors, any religious group can claim that they are merely proof that their understanding is progressive.