Are they going to keep lowering the bar to be appointed an MS or Elder???

by karter 36 Replies latest jw friends

  • punkofnice

    Nepotism! That always swings things. I know of bodies of elders that are 99% family. I've seen sons of elders promoted despite being as wet as a haddocks bathing costume.

    Nepotism is just one angle.

    Aren't they crying out for 'qualified' men as the mass exodus from the cult continues?

  • antes8080

    There were two new MS in are cong and there avrg field service was 3 hrs!!!

    I know couse i had the publisher cards i ask the elder was up with that.. he told me we need help and they are the only ones that can help!!

  • Franklin Massey
    Franklin Massey

    Salvation by Report Card


    In my area, the standards are, indeed, lowering. Now, that's not to say that the standards were ever set at a correct level. What I can say is that brothers who, five years ago, were considered "A little too spiritually weak" to lead, or, "not quite the best example" in this area or that, are now serving as Ministerial Servants. Many of these are good men. Whether they make good MSs is another matter.

  • No Room For George
    No Room For George

    They're bleeding bad right now for appointed men, but I can't tell if they're raising or lowering the bar. I know of a couple brothers, one in my own congregation, and another in a neighboring hall, both of whom will not be appointed because of them having attended college, one still in school. At the same time, I know cases of older long time Ministerial Servants, who when recomended by the elder body to be appointed as elders, when run by the Circuit Overseer, he shot them down because of them having been Servants so long, he questioned why now all of a sudden do they qualify to be elders? What he stated wasn't simply a matter of him shooting from his own hip either, as he emphasized that the Branch is who is inquiring why all of a sudden this Servant of 15 years all of a sudden qualifies to be an elder.

    Another thing, I've noticed a lot more of recently, is that CO's are really emphasizing that elders train and take servants under their wings so to speak. I spoke with a former elder, and he told me they emphasized this when he was an elder, and he admitted that even then they only spoke about taking servants on shepharding calls and didn't follow up on it like they were supposed to. That being said, I'm under the impression that there's probably, a culture you might say, of elders not training servants and following up with servants to see how they can advance beyond the scope of being a servant. I remember when I was a servant, only a couple times had I been taken on shepharding calls, and I can't recall whether or not the couple elders I was under ever showed me the publisher cards.

    Pornography is really a major problem right now too. I know we love to talk about how the WT is scared to death of the internet because of their flock coming across message boards such as this, but pornography has really become an issue, and its to the point that if some elder admitted to viewing years ago, even while appointed, if the gap in time was significant enough, they won't delete him. I might be going out on a limb saying this, but pornography might be a bigger problem on the internet, than apostacy in the WT's eyes.

    Nepotism is definately an unspoken issue, and I wonder at times if the WT actually encourages it. I say that because of the so called real reason the book study was eliminated from being at people's individual homes. Supposedly, after a couple years of heavy emphasis on how valuable the book study arrangement is, they just upped and and eliminated it. I heard various different reasons, from gas, lone wolf conductors straying from the WT's party line, legal issues, etc.. The comes the family arrangement, and I'm finally seeing some consistency with the WT and CO's stating that the reason the book study was eliminated as it was in the past and replaced with the family worship night arrangement, was because the GB feels that strong families make strong congregations. That being said, elder bodies containing multiple members of families may be a good thing from the WT's point of view. Nepotism is here to stay.

    I know I was all over the place, and I apologize, but to sum it all up in a nutshell, I can't tell one way or the other whether or not they're raising the bar, or lowering it. Satan only knows.

  • BluesBrother

    When the arrangement first came in - in the early seventies - a good many young men in their mid to late twenties were appointed. Anecdotal comments indicated that Brooklyn were not pleased with that " You appoint them, you live with them" was attributed to N H Knorr. The age limit crept up to 30 at one time.

    Nowadays, what I see is a drop in standards, not in age. I have seen few elders that were not grey-headed and they seem (around here) to be old stick-in-the-muds who could not motivate anybody. Honestly, there was one newbie last year who did appear to qualify, but I have seen too many appointments that were met with shock/horror by the flock.

    I know of two cases where people moved congregations on the occasion of an appointment , and the could not stand being counselled by him!

  • steve2
    I know of two cases where people moved congregations on the occasion of an appointment , and the could not stand being counselled by him!

    My empathy is with older sisters with 'unbelieving mates' who are counselled by young know-it-all males in their 20s whose outlook extends no further than the margins of the Watchtower magazine. There's a much higher proportion of women in the organization and I'd think it would be hugely difficult for many of these capable women to have to sit through meetings listening to these clean-shaven boys laying down the law. I can think of few things in life that would be more frustrating that having to suppress one's intelligence and wisdom in order to help a younger person protect his super-preened ego.

  • i_drank_the_wine

    They've lowered the bar like crazy. People that got into more trouble than I did growing up get made ministerial servants in their early 20's.

    One guy I used to be sort-of-friends with (that had been DF'd and cheated on his wife an additional time) started partaking at the memorial a couple years ago, in his early 30's.

  • Iamallcool

    Somebody told me that an elder was appointed at the age of 19 sometime back in the 1990's. He is from Philadelphia. He got appointed as MS at the age of 18. Thats fast.

  • LittleMac

    In the hall I was last associated with, there were/are several young guys, like 25-39, that were the mike handlers, mag counters, grass cutters, who were supposed to be groomed to be MS or elders? someday, the elders were all 50-85 yrs. old. I used to care about getting noticed, try to keep the kids sitting still, giving answers, driving in service all of the time, cleaning the hall, even did the accounts for a month before they gave it to an appointed brother, then finally I gave up. (Finding out it wasn't the Truth was the real came later on)

    As I was on my way out, they finally appointed another brother and then another recently both who were my friends but it just seemed so arbitrary, like they said to themselves " oh this guy left, man, maybe we better throw these guys a bone so they dont give up and leave too."

    What was so funny is that in this area that I live in, it is so apparrent that the brothers are just playing games, playing favorites.

    I moved into the area, had been an MS, "served" at Patterson, married, had a full time, attended all of the meetings, 8-12 in service regular, never said no to anything asked of me, even asked to conduct book study when it was still going on. Still no appointment.

    A guy who was studying with a pioneer elder in the hall, was a real go getter, and a friend of mine at the time, studies, gets baptized, wife gets baptized, and appointed as an Ms in a period of like 4 yrs.

    Well finally they ask me if I could serve, and thinking that this must be the spirit led direction, I confess that I had looked at porn recently. I just figured that they would see it was my nature to be totally up front about things. My naivete was never more apparent as it was then. I trusted these guys to be understanding and instead they played the game and treated it as an admission of guilt and so I was sidelined for the rest of the time I was a witness. (Another 7 yrs.) Ah, anyway, I grew up to perform for the praise and the pat-on- the-back in the kingdom hell. It's how I was raised and got praise and approval from pretty fanatical parents during all that time, too.

    About a year ago, when that study article, Brothers, Can You Reach Out? was being done on a Sunday, I was sitting next to my wife just fuming inside and not embarrassed to let it show. I was beginning to realize finally that it was abuse of power and manipulation of people.

    Apparently being honest and forthright gets you shit-canned.

    Damn, that felt good! But what feels even better is to never ever have to go back and look to schmucks like that for approval. F**K you!

  • Magwitch

    On my DF'ing committee (that I did not attend) one of the elders was 24 years old. How repugnant to think a mature woman would go and tell all to some little pimple face weirdo that does not even shave yet.

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