Are the children of a state the responsibility of the state?

by sabastious 16 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • sabastious

    Blondie: the way I see it is this:

    The way to be effective on "all fronts" is to get experts on the fields where the abuse is happening most. In my opinion attack the cults FIRST (including small time non-denominational), then mainstream religions.

    I feel more equipped than most to attack child abuse in the environment I grew up in, but I feel ill equiped to fight on any other fronts.


  • dgp

    Yet Blondie is right. If this is a problem elsewhere, it's a problem that needs to be addressed everywhere.

  • blondie

    Sab, SNAP has been dealing with the RC for more than ten years. Their success started partly when the also were successful in strengthening the laws re abuse in all 50 states. They are still doing that with the help of many high level people in law, religion, etc. The key is the law, that is the tool that will stop abuse everywhere and anywhere. SNAP's success in fighting abuse in the RC has been used to deal with it anywhere it pops up. I encourage anyone interested in this to go to their site and inform yourself of what they have done and are doing.


  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    The First Amendment bars any religious discrimination. The only laws that can be held against a religion are laws of general applicability, such as bigamy or banning of peyote.

    Besides, the text of the First Amendment, I can't overestimate how personally judges and lawyers view this matter. Contracts - a way to make money. Personal Injury-a way to make money. Religious discrimination - ardent belief.

    I've been half-heartedly researching freedom of religion in western democracies to contrast with the US view. The French have a concept called laicete that recognizes that reliigion can coerce and destroy citizens. The United States is a universe away from that view. People explain that the US was founded by religious dissidents escaping England or Holland to have their sect in dominance here. Religion came before government in most colonies. Religion was so aligned with ultra conservative nonprogressive trends in Europe that some countries banned religion completely for a while.

    Pedophilia or child abuse in general is a crime of general applicability with no reference to religion. They can insist on two witnesses for a disfellowship but the prosecutor can use whatever is necessary and proper evidence. The rape laws changed drastically in this country b/c these crimes are not done in public. Children rarely make up these stories and all the evidence can be measured for its probative value. Two witnesses is a weird rule. What if there one witness and superb DNA?

  • dgp

    laicete that recognizes that reliigion can coerce and destroy citizens

    Vive la France! Allons enfants de la patrie, le jour de gloire est arrivé...

    Band on the Run, look a bit south. Like Mexico. Check why they have a period of their history called "the Reformation".

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    I think everyone here is familiar with the first amendment. The question isn't, "Can laws be made in the USA to restrict religion?" (Duh. They can't.) The question is, "Can laws be made in the USA for ALL adults who work with children, EVEN IF those adults work with children in a religious capacity?"

    We are talking about the law in Victoria, Australia that requires background checks for all adults who work with kids (includes teachers, sports coaches, religious leaders, etc.).

    Could something similar be done in the USA?

  • dgp

    I know what the answer to the question would be, but I have to post it. And, I don't disagree with Mad Sweeney. I just would like to introduce a different angle.

    If I believed in the Aztec religion and wanted to sacrify virgins in the altar to my dear Huitzilopochtli, so he would keep the world going, would the laws on murder be construed as laws restricting my religion? Should I be allowed to sacrify virgins, so I could not claim persecution?

    My secular mind tells me that religion is but a construct of the mind and it should be regulated whenever it conflicts with humanity. I think freedom of religion should not be understood to mean freedom to do the worst things and claim that is just my religion.

    I sure hope all countries will find a way to do what Australia is doing. It would be quite a pity if America, of all countries, couldn't do that.

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