I am not impressed with WT lawyers. The concept seems silly that someone could be an active Witness and yet have the reasoning ability necessary for law school and to pass a local bar exam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_control
-Sab
Catholic Church not Accountable for Priests Actions
by Poztate 20 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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sabastious
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Anony Mous
If priests (or elders) are not employees then what do you call a sales person at your car dealership? Or any other sales/marketing/intern/managerial type person working on commission, working for stock or shares or working to get some experience?
They're doing something for or doing the will of a corporation (in this case the Roman Church, the Watchtower) in order to get something that is valuable to them (whether it be money, unsold shares, toilet paper or everlasting life doesn't matter).
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Chariklo
The Roman Catholic church and the Anglican church alike are past masters at covering up any wrongdoing, and are willing to exert power and pressure, to lie and generally intimidate on any matter that calls into question their integrity and good name, most especially if there is likely to be any kind of financial loss.
Band on the Run, even though the Anglican church does have lay input, in this respect it is tarred with the same brush as the RC church, at least in the UK which is where my own direct experience and knowledge is based. Ultimately, both churches are hooked on power in all its ugly forms, and they are not averse to covert strong-arm tactics either, particularly if they can lean on the vulnerable and make them quail.
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Band on the Run
I was not saying that the Anglican Church is not entrenched with power plays. The Bishop of Philadelphia enabled his pedophile brother to escape censure and sent him on to several parishes where his brother preyed on children. The lay body demanded his resignation. He refuses to leave. The lay body suspended his ability to perform any bishop duties. I am uncertain whether his priestly dubties were suspended. now, it is before some national church body. Despite being ordered to leave, he hangs around and I believe is drawing a salalry. The evidence is clear and convincing.
I would never accept eucharist from him or sit through a sermon without waking out. I believe my fellow parishoners would do the same.
Compared to cult churches such as JWs, the Anglican Church has an active laity. I must confess urban areas have very strong lay input. Here in my exile in exurbia, they are sheep. Despite being sheep and highly deferential, they utterly condemn thier bishop in the proceedings. The vote to kick him out had only a handful of dissenters. I volunteered at the Cathedral in Manhattan. Lay people would meet and stress the need for lay action. People noted if priests were using too many resources. Other elite churches sued their rectors for a variety of reasons. So, maybe I should amend my statement for urban areas.
Repeatedly, I witnessed dissent that was tolerated by clergy that the Witness would die from. Vestry members were conscious that they had a duty not to be the priests buddy. So from my Witness background, I was astounded. Priests are open to doctrinal disputes outside of the pulpit. I kept pinching myself that such a culture could exist.
I wonder if the American church has a different culture than in England. Again, the doctrinal reveries occurred at the cathedral in NYC, not my local exurb church. People would set up voodoo candles, walk their dogs down the aisles, crush beer cans on the floor during concerts, etc. The Dean would always proclaim to let it be, God can take it. Maybe God can take it but I am not God. I had trouble taking it. So I cursed him and admired his stance at the same time.
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Chariklo
I wonder if the American church has a different culture than in England.
Possibly. In England it is entrenched in establishment, involved in political power play and in social hierarchical structure.
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Band on the Run
Yes. Church of England is the establishment. Certainly, it is one of thee or four high status churches in the States. It is strongest where England controlled land during the REvolutionary War. Downotwn Manhattan seems to have an esteemed EC every two blocks. Once you leave the Revolutionary era NY, churches are less sparse. One of the reasons the States has an Establishment Clause is that Episcoplians had an outsixe role in politcal proceedings. Historians believe the culture of the church encouraged wheeling and deeling over other churches. Other churches feared a resurgence of the English experience.
We love English terms from the Middle Ages. Yet we are American. No one fears disunion over ordination of gays b/c we have the money that Africa spends.
A popular book on the various cultures and the gay ordination battle would make an interesting book. The idea of Pres. Obama nominating a bishop is laughable. The hacked phone conversatoins of the royal family make her appointment of bishops, etc. laughable to us.
As a poli sci major, I find the interior church battles fascinating and juicy tabloid reading. As a Witness, I knew quite a bit b/c of Behtel connections but the Witnesses are so closed.
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cameo-d
Poztate:
Victims of sexual abuse by priests will no longer be able to sue the Catholic church for damages if a landmark judgment rules that priests should not be considered as employees.
Looks like "trick" wording to me. Of course they are not "employees". They are representatives of the Roman Curia Cult. They are "knighted" by the Pope as his vicarious vessels.
I think WT had its own little deal concerning health insurance and pension for Bethelites not being considered "employees" and therefore being kicked out in the cold.
Of course they are not "employees". Give them a name that fits....delegates, representatives, henchmen......
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Band on the Run
Yet the Roman Catholic Church is being forced to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in damages. Not the individual pedophile but the diocesan officails. I presume a different liability theory is at work.
Some dioceses have gone bankrupt b/c the damages are so huge. If the RC lawyers were not such zealots, the awards would be lower and the public anger would not be as great. My sister surprised me when she said her H and she refused to give a cent to the diocese anymore. A group of parishoners in her church met and researched nonprofits that follow Catholic principles. Their pledges are going directly to those organizations.
I read the NY Times religiously. It seems that every day there is a new article about the gall of the Catholic Church. Bishops are only beginning to meet and personally apologize to victims, decades later.
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Chariklo
My sister surprised me when she said her H and she refused to give a cent to the diocese anymore.
The same is true in parishes here, in areas of England. The RC policy of cover-up and deceptiion goes to the top, where it prefers not to let the right hand know what the left is doing. It covers other areas of life than paedophilia.
What hurts them most? What causes them most sleepless nights? The abuse of little children, or the state of the coffers? You can bet it's the latter, and one only needs to look, as in the case of the C of E, at their property and investments and their links with bankers to see what's really going on.
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Band on the Run
Incredibly,, the state of the coffers. Yeah, a few RC officails are as venal as the Witnesses say. Most seem good natured. There is an insnt'l blindness. I believe these law suits started from the victims. Discovery allowed the plaintiffs to view documents showing knowledge and cover-up.
Tomorrow's installment on the corruptin of the church will appear. I am going to pay attention to the grounds for liability for once. Maybe I will google it later tonight. I've read scads and scads of articles and never truly paid attention. Much of this is political. The publicity is killing the church. Victim movements have changed the laws from the 1950s and 1960s. More psychology has been studied concerning the allegatins of young children.