Showdown with my family

by fade_away 7 Replies latest jw experiences

  • fade_away

    So I was at my parents house yesterday and an apostate vs J-dub showdown commenced. I was merely just asking questions since they always told me that if I had any questions to feel free to ask. So I did.....but they seemed angry at the fact I was asking such questions to begin with. They said I should know better than to be asking such things and the fact I asked arroused their suspicion of me lurking in apostate websites. Basically, they told me y'all on here are a bunch of liars the Devil uses to distort the JWs beliefs.

    It all started when my brother mentioned the wonderful things JWs do in times of disasters and how they look out for each other. He mentioned that they are the first ones on the scene taking care of their fellow brothers and sisters. I asked why do the Dubs interests revolve around their own members before the interest of others? I mean, isn't every human life equally valuable? (my non-JW inlaw was there and she understood my point) Didn't Jesus die for all humanity? He said that we are a brotherhood...therefore we are a spiritual family. So if a family member is in trouble, we naturally make them a priority over the stranger who is in the same type of trouble. (he put my wife as an example and what I would do if her and a group of strangers were in trouble...who would I save first.) He mentioned that even in the animal kingdom the natural instinct is to save your family, and if I didn't see the brotherhood of JWs as family, then I have serious issues to work out. "We are supposed to see them and feel for them as if they were our own flesh and blood" is more or less what he told me.

    Then I asked them about what they consider "pagan". I said the JWs do good in avoiding pagan traditions but what about the wedding ring? That's pagan. Also, what about the veil? They said "well, we can't be too strict either." So then are Jws choosing what's more convinient for them to ban? Christmas is pagan so that's bad but a wedding ring is ok cause it would be too strict of us to ban that? They kept telling me that the WT hasn't put a ban on it so then it's ok.

    That led to another question: "Does the Watchtower consider themselves equivalent to God?" "Are they putting themselves in God's shoes?" He said no. They are to God what my wife is to me. So talking bad about the WT would make God angry just like someone talking bad about my wife would make me angry. He mentioned how Satan wants us to doubt God's "wife". He can accomplish that with the wide selection of tools he has such as the internet. Here's where he started bashing all of you here on JWN, saying that if you search "Jehovahs Witnesses" online, all you'll get is barbaric lies from bitter people who distort the truth. Apostates who have had a some bad experiences as a JW and decide to rebel just like Satan did against God and spread blasphemous words against Jehovah's people.

    Anyway, he kept going on and feeling victorious all the while as I sat there and humbly listened. I didn't roll my eyes, or made any sarcastic gestures. It was two vs one so I knew I was cornered before I even started my questions. I just listened and gave him what he wanted...a nod of approval and just the occasional "ok I see". As someone posted here earlier, it is pointless to argue with closed minded people. Just give them their satisfaction and turn your back cause they won't give up until they feel they've won the debate. That's the ultimate goal they have is to win! Like Charlie Sheen! So I let him "win" cause in the end, I was just a guy with questions....not a debater looking to win an argument. I want to see what they think and what their answers are. It's interesting to see how a brainwashed mind thinks.

    What do you guys think of his answers? What would you have said to his arguments.

  • Sulla

    I'm sure he feels great: he got his talking points out against no opposition. With respect to the relief services, you could do worse than steal the Catholic Charities line: we help everyone not because they are Catholic, but because we are Catholic.

  • whathehadas

    In that type of situation......It's a loss with a capital "L". Either you start questioning the "Bible based" beliefs or the glue that holds the Borg together, the Red flag for the Witnesses will fly up faster than you can say Jehovah God. If you want to get them to question, ask them something in regards to their methods such as counting time for Field Service. When does the time start for service? When you leave your house to meet the group? When you get to the Kingdom Hall? When the meeting for service is over? or When does Field service time stop? When you stop at dunkin donuts? When you stop for a restroom break? etc................

  • NewChapter

    I don't think he actually answered the wedding ring question. He said that the WT didn't prohibit it so it was okay, but didn't explain how it was different from Christmas---unless his point was the WT prohibits Christmas but not wedding rings, therefore the GB puts themselves in God's shoes---but no that wasn't the point---The org is God's wife. But that still leaves the question: Why is it okay to wear a wedding ring but not celebrate Christmas. Well they don't want to be tooo strict, but then there is the blood issue which actually kills people. So what is too strict and who decides? God's wife?

    Sorry-I had to sit down. I was getting a little dizzy.

    This answer was brought to you by a liar and tool of Satan.


  • talesin

    Hi, fade. I've tried ... their reaction reminds me of the "Far Side" cartoon where the man is talking to his dog, and all the dog hears is 'blah blah blah FIDO blah blah blah FIDO"...

    It's a downer, but they don't really 'hear' you,,, it's frustrating, I know.


  • DesirousOfChange

    FADE AWAY: On the disaster relief debate, you ask him if it's true that JWs require that insurance settlements be turned over to the Disaster Relief Committee? (They do.) You see, all the labor is volunteer, but the insurance settlements are based on the cost of materials AND LABOR, thus they pocket the insurance procedes for the labor even though the work was all done by free JW volunteers. Often they will shuttle in volunteers (at the volunteeres' own expense of course) from all over the country to places where there are major disasters such as hurricanes. All the JW volunteers get the feel good about helping out the disaster stricken brothers, and the Society gets a windfall of insurance money. CA$H COW.

    Or, you could ask if it is true that JWs contend that Holy Spirit appoints their officials, such as Ministerial Servants, Elders, Circuit Overseers, District Overseers, etc? (They clearly say YES to this!) Then why is it that the Holy Spirit would appoint a serial child molester as a JW Bethel Elder who was a regular speaker and respresentative of the Watchtower World Headquarters who traveled all around the world (US & South America) giving talks at conventions and special events? Is God's Holy Spirit REALLY directing the decisions of this Organization? See related news report below about Jesus Manuel Cano who lived at the WT Farms complex (which was raided by police):

    You could ask if they claim that when Jesus invisibly returned that he appointed the WT Organization as his ONE chosen means of communication in 1914 because of the works they were doing as compared to all the rest of Christianity (Christendom)? YES THEY DO! If Christmas is SO PAGAN, why did Jesus choose an Organization who celebrated PAGAN holidays (Christmas) for at least another 10 years after he selected them as his chosen "Christian" mouthpiece? They also used the CROSS which they claim is pagan as a symbol on the cover of the Watchtower magazine until 1936. Why did Jesus approve of his Holy Spirit Directed Organization using pagan symbols and celebrating pagan customs then, but not now? How could they claim that the Organization was not contaminated just as all the rest of Christendom? (You can find proof of this in their own history book known as "Proclaimers".)

  • breakfast of champions
    breakfast of champions

    FADE_AWAY - I hope it never comes to this with my family. I think you did the best you could.

    If it does ever come to a "showdown" with any family members, I would reassure them that I still appreciate the moral values I learned as a witness and perhaps a few other positive things I have 'gleaned' from my life experience as one of them.

    I would then let them know that the only real problem with 'the truth' is:

    IT IS NOT TRUE!!!!!

    And I would tell them I did my research on questions that plagued me and they could do the same themselves, and it is not something I am going to argue about.

    It's been said many times on this forum, that the best thing you could do for your family still in is LIVE A HAPPY, PRODUCTIVE LIFE.

  • Free!!

    Fade... just breathe... like u said there is no point of arguing with them, it does not matter what you say or do, they are always right (or so they think)....

    The Disaster relief thing, like someone else said it is a cash cow, and i always had a problem w that as well... why wouldn't the loving brothers and sisters help EVERYONE and not just JWs?? i mean, Jesus talked about the good samaritan and how regardless of the differences between the communities the good samaritan helped the injured man, same thing here... it shouldn't be about where or who they worship, it should be about humanity and kindness... and following Jesus example....

    I was talking to ur wife and i told her i think the time is coming where you guys are going to need to move away from the area if you want to fade successfully, or just prepare for THE showdown w your family and ours.... i wish you both the best and you know i'll have your back no matter what!!

Share this