Refuting the ARGUMENT BY DESIGN.

by nicolaou 122 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    I offer an excerpt from Dawkins' The God Delusion as an apropos addition to this conversation, with apologies in advance for the length:

    "The anthropic principle was named by the British mathematician Brandon Carter in 1974 and expanded by the physicists John Barrow and Frank Tipler in their book on the subject. The anthropic argument is usually applied to the cosmos, and I'll come to that. But I'll introduce the idea on a
    smaller, planetary scale. We exist here on Earth. Therefore Earth must be the kind of planet that is capable of generating and supporting us, however unusual, even unique, that kind of planet might be. For example, our kind of life cannot survive without liquid water. Indeed, exobiologists searching for evidence of extraterrestrial life are scanning the heavens, in practice, for signs of water. Around a typical star like our sun, there is a so-called Goldilocks zone - not too hot and not too cold, but just right - for planets with liquid water. A thin band of orbits lies between those that are too far from the star, where water freezes, and too close, where it boils.

    Presumably, too, a life-friendly orbit has to be nearly circular. A fiercely elliptical orbit, like that of the newly discovered tenth planet informally known as Xena, would at best allow the planet to whizz briefly through the Goldilocks zone once every few (Earth) decades or centuries. Xena itself doesn't get into the Goldilocks zone at all, even at its closest approach to the sun, which it reaches once every 560 Earth years. The temperature of Halley's Comet varies between about 47°C at perihelion and minus 270°C at aphelion. Earth's orbit, like those of all the planets, is technically an ellipse (it is closest to the sun in January and furthest away in July); but a circle is a special case of an ellipse, and Earth's orbit is so close to circular that it never strays out of the Goldilocks zone. Earth's situation in the solar system is propitious in other ways that singled it out for the evolution of life. The massive gravitational vacuum cleaner of Jupiter is well placed to intercept asteroids that might otherwise threaten us with lethal collision. Earth's single relatively large moon serves to stabilize our axis of rotation,68 and helps to foster life in various other ways. Our sun is unusual in not being a binary, locked in mutual orbit with a companion star. It is possible for binary stars to have planets, but their orbits are likely to be too chaotically variable to encourage the evolution of life.

    Two main explanations have been offered for our planet's peculiar friendliness to life. The design theory says that God made the world, placed it in the Goldilocks zone, and deliberately set up all the details for our benefit. The anthropic approach is very different, and it has a faintly Darwinian feel. The great majority of planets in the universe are not in the Goldilocks zones of their respective stars, and not suitable for life. None of that majority has life. However small the minority of planets with just the right conditions for life may be, we necessarily have to be on one of that
    minority, because here we are thinking about it.

    It is a strange fact, incidentally, that religious apologists love the anthropic principle. For some reason that makes no sense at all, they think it supports their case. Precisely the opposite is true. The anthropic principle, like natural selection, is an alternative to the design hypothesis. It provides a rational, design-free explanation for the fact that we find ourselves in a situation propitious to our existence. I think the confusion arises in the religious mind because the anthropic principle is only ever mentioned in the context of the problem that it solves, namely the fact that we live in a life-friendly place. What the religious mind then fails to grasp is that two candidate solutions are offered to the problem. God is one. The anthropic principle is the other. They are alternatives.

    Liquid water is a necessary condition for life as we know it, but it is far from sufficient. Life still has to originate in the water, and the origin of life may have been a highly improbable occurrence. Darwinian evolution proceeds merrily once life has originated. But how does life get started? The origin of life was the chemical event, or series of events, whereby the vital conditions for natural selection first came about. The major ingredient was heredity, either DNA or (more probably) something that copies like DNA but less accurately, perhaps the related molecule RNA. Once the vital
    ingredient - some kind of genetic molecule - is in place, true Darwinian natural selection can follow, and complex life emerges as the eventual consequence. But the spontaneous arising by chance of the first hereditary molecule strikes many as improbable. Maybe it is - very very improbable, and I shall dwell on this, for it is central to this section of the book.

    The origin of life is a flourishing, if speculative, subject for research. The expertise required for it is chemistry and it is not mine. I watch from the sidelines with engaged curiosity, and I shall not be surprised if, within the next few years, chemists report that they have successfully midwifed a new origin of life in the laboratory. Nevertheless it hasn't happened yet, and it is still possible to maintain that the probability of its happening is, and always was, exceedingly low - although it did happen once!

    Just as we did with the Goldilocks orbits, we can make the point that, however improbable the origin of life might be, we know it happened on Earth because we are here. Again as with temperature, there are two hypotheses to explain what happened - the design hypothesis and the scientific or 'anthropic' hypothesis. The design approach postulates a God who wrought a deliberate miracle, struck the prebiotic soup with divine fire and launched DNA, or something equivalent, on its momentous career.

    Again, as with Goldilocks, the anthropic alternative to the design hypothesis is statistical. Scientists invoke the magic of large numbers. It has been estimated that there are between 1 billion and 30 billion planets in our galaxy, and about 100 billion galaxies in the universe. Knocking a few noughts off for reasons of ordinary prudence, a billion billion is a conservative estimate of the number of available planets in the universe. Now,suppose the origin of life, the spontaneous arising of something equivalent to DNA, really was a quite staggeringly improbable event. Suppose it was so improbable as to occur on only one in a billion planets. A grant-giving body would laugh at any chemist who admitted that the
    chance of his proposed research succeeding was only one in a hundred. But here we are talking about odds of one in a billion. And yet . . . even with such absurdly long odds, life will still have arisen on a billion planets - of which Earth, of course, is one.

    This conclusion is so surprising, I'll say it again. If the odds of life originating spontaneously on a planet were a billion to one against, nevertheless that stupefyingly improbable event would still happen on a billion planets. The chance of finding any one of those billion life-bearing planets recalls the proverbial needle in a haystack. But we don't have to go out of our way to find a needle because (back to the anthropic principle) any beings capable of looking must necessarily be sitting on one of those prodigiously rare needles before they even start the search.

    Any probability statement is made in the context of a certain level of ignorance. If we know nothing about a planet, we may postulate the odds of life's arising on it as, say, one in a billion. But if we now import some new assumptions into our estimate, things change. A particular planet may have some peculiar properties, perhaps a special profile of element abundances in its rocks, which shift the odds in favour of life's emerging. Some planets, in other words, are more 'Earth-like' than others. Earth itself, of course, is especially Earth-like! This should give encouragement to our chemists trying to recreate the event in the lab, for it could shorten the odds against their success. But my earlier calculation demonstrated that even a chemical model with odds of success as low as one in a billion would still predict that life would arise on a billion planets in the universe.
    And the beauty of the anthropic principle is that it tells us, against all intuition, that a chemical model need only predict that life will arise on one planet in a billion billion to give us a good and entirely satisfying explanation for the presence of life here. I do not for a moment believe the origin of life was anywhere near so improbable in practice. I think it is definitely worth spending money on trying to duplicate the event in the lab and - by the same token, on SETI, because I think it is likely that there is intelligent life elsewhere.

    Even accepting the most pessimistic estimate of the probability that life might spontaneously originate, this statistical argument completely demolishes any suggestion that we should postulate design to fill the gap. Of all the apparent gaps in the evolutionary story, the origin of life gap can seem unbridgeable to brains calibrated to assess likelihood and risk on an everyday scale: the scale on which grant-giving bodies assess research proposals submitted by chemists. Yet even so big a gap as this is easily filled by statistically informed science, while the very same statistical science rules out a divine creator on the 'Ultimate 747' grounds we met earlier.

    But now, to return to the interesting point that launched this section. Suppose somebody tried to explain the general phenomenon of biological adaptation along the same lines as we have just applied to the origin of life: appealing to an immense number of available planets. The observed fact is that every species, and every organ that has ever been looked at within every species, is good at what it does. The wings of birds, bees and bats are good at flying. Eyes are good at seeing. Leaves are good at photosynthesizing. We live on a planet where we are surrounded by perhaps ten million species, each one of which independently displays a powerful illusion of apparent design. Each species is well fitted to its particular way of life. Could we get away with the 'huge numbers of planets' argument to explain all these separate illusions of design? No, we could not, repeat not. Don't even think about it. This is important, for it goes to the heart of the most serious misunderstanding of Darwinism.

    It doesn't matter how many planets we have to play with, lucky chance could never be enough to explain the lush diversity of living complexity on Earth in the same way as we used it to explain the existence of life here in the first place. The evolution of life is a completely different case from the origin of life because, to repeat, the origin of life was (or could have been) a unique event which had to happen only once. The adaptive fit of species to their separate environments, on the other hand, is millionfold, and ongoing.

    It is clear that here on Earth we are dealing with a generalized process for optimizing biological species, a process that works all over the planet,on all continents and islands, and at all times. We can safely predict that, if we wait another ten million years, a whole new set of species will be as well adapted to their ways of life as today's species are to theirs. This is a recurrent, predictable, multiple phenomenon, not a piece of statistical luck recognized with hindsight. And, thanks to Darwin, we know how it is brought about: by natural selection."

    The anthropic principle is impotent to explain the multifarious details of living creatures. We really need Darwin's powerful crane to account for the diversity of life on Earth, and especially the persuasive illusion of design. The origin of life, by contrast, lies outside the reach of that crane, because natural selection cannot proceed without it. Here the anthropic principle comes into its own. We can deal with the unique origin of life by postulating a very large number of planetary opportunities. Once that initial stroke of luck has been granted - and the anthropic principle most decisively grants it to us - natural selection takes over: and natural selection is emphatically not a matter of luck.

    Nevertheless, it may be that the origin of life is not the only major gap in the evolutionary story that is bridged by sheer luck, anthropically justified. For example, my colleague Mark Ridley in Mendel's Demon (gratuitously and confusingly retitled The Cooperative Gene by his American publishers) has suggested that the origin of the eucaryotic cell (our kind of cell, with a nucleus and various other complicated features such as mitochondria, which are not present in bacteria) was an even more momentous, difficult and statistically improbable step than the origin of life. The origin of
    consciousness might be another major gap whose bridging was of the same order of improbability. One-off events like this might be explained by the anthropic principle, along the following lines. There are billions of planets that have developed life at the level of bacteria, but only a fraction of these life forms ever made it across the gap to something like the eucaryotic cell. And of these, a yet smaller fraction managed to cross the later Rubicon to consciousness. If both of these are one-off events, we are not dealing with a ubiquitous and all-pervading process, as we are with ordinary, run-of-themill biological adaptation. The anthropic principle states that, since we are alive, eucaryotic and conscious, our planet has to be one of the intensely rare planets that has bridged all three gaps.

    Natural selection works because it is a cumulative one-way street to improvement. It needs some luck to get started, and the 'billions of planets' anthropic principle grants it that luck. Maybe a few later gaps in the evolutionary story also need major infusions of luck, with anthropic justification. But whatever else we may say, design certainly does not work as an explanation for life, because design is ultimately not cumulative and it therefore raises bigger questions than it answers - it takes us straight back along the Ultimate 747 infinite regress.

    We live on a planet that is friendly to our kind of life, and we have seen two reasons why this is so. One is that life has evolved to flourish in the conditions provided by the planet. This is because of natural selection. The other reason is the anthropic one. There are billions of planets in the universe, and, however small the minority of evolution-friendly planets may be, our planet necessarily has to be one of them. Now it is time to take the anthropic principle back to an earlier stage, from biology back to cosmology.

    We live not only on a friendly planet but also in a friendly universe. It follows from the fact of our existence that the laws of physics must be friendly enough to allow life to arise. It is no accident that when we look at the night sky we see stars, for stars are a necessary prerequisite for the existence of most of the chemical elements, and without chemistry there could be no life. Physicists have calculated that, if the laws and constants of physics had been even slightly different, the universe would have developed in such a way that life would have been impossible. Different physicists put it in different ways, but the conclusion is always much the same. Martin Rees, in Just Six Numbers, lists six fundamental constants, which are believed to hold all around the universe. Each of these six numbers i finely tuned in the sense that, if it were slightly different, the uiverse would be comprehensively different and presumably unfriendly to life.

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou

    Thanks Nickolas,

    This is a clip from a year old thread but perhaps it bears reposting;

    Creationist: “Look at this! The course of this river has obviously been designed, it's avoiding every single tree on the riverbank!”

    Atheist: “That's not true, the river isn't avoiding anything”.

    Creationist: “But look at it! Can't you see? It's swerving to avoid every single plant!”

    Atheist: “This river was not designed, there is overwhelming evidence that it formed by natural processes and the plants are growing on the land that is available to them”.

    Creationist: “Are you trying to tell me that all those plants know where the riverbank is?

    Atheist: “No, I never said that the plants know anything, seeds will germinate when the conditions are right. The soil on the riverbank is nutrient rich and has a good amount of moisture in it”.

    Creationist: (smiling to himself) “So, who planted the seeds on the riverbank for them to germinate in the first place? Did they plant themselves there did they?”

    Atheist: “No, the seeds are dispersed naturally by wind and animals etc”.

    Creationist: “That's impossible! What are the chances of all these plants coming to the riverbank by accident? The probability is just too low”.

    Atheist: “Actually the probability is so high that it happens all the time. It is to be expected”.

    Creationist: “You are very foolish, why don't you give credit to the one who designed this river?”

    Atheist: “No one designed the river! Why do you keep saying that when all the evidence is against you?”

    Creationist: (pulls out a book) “Look, it says so right here! First he planted the trees, then he made the river . . . .

    It's at this point I have to decide whether to give up or not.

  • Hoffnung
    Hoffnung

    Hi Nicalou,

    Thank you for bringing this up. I am not a creationist and I do not like it to be compared with one. The processes in nature are what they are since many millions of years. No creator - designer - god has done anything to them since ages ago. There is no need for it for the designer to act, as the processes are almost perfect.

    I even can agree with some points of the natural selection idea.

    However the anthropic principle is absolute bollocks. It is as much a circular reasoning as the Witnesses use them so often. It is not because there is one chance in a billion and there are this billion planets available in the universe, that things happened this way.

    I am not going to hang my understanding of the universe on something that has such a low probability of happening. You will not hang your life on an operation that has one chance in a million to succeed, are you?

  • Judge Dread
    Judge Dread
    JD, I already told you to look in the sky. The Sun and the Moon are the first watch. No one made them.

    They are "artifacts" left by a designer.

    JDW

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    Cogito ergo sum, but just because one thinks does not mean he understands.

    One of the greatest constraints on perceiving probabilities in the billionth fraction or perceiving timeframes in the billions of years is the human brain is not built that way. The human brain is built to perceive exceedingly narrow ranges of probability, space and time and it is only through exceptional effort on the part of someone of even average intelligence that he or she can go beyond those ranges, and even then he will fall hopelessly short. It is more comfortable just to stay where you are, and that will be the default position.

    The human condition is that some seek earnestly to understand what they do not yet understand, some seek to affirm or build upon their current understanding, some are incapable of understanding what they do not understand, some do not want to understand something different from their current understanding. I have learned from my various interactions with people who are comfortable with what they understand to be truth, and especially those who are dedicated to changing my mind on what I perceive, that more often than not they are incapable of hearing what I have to say. I may have been on their page in times past and have advanced well beyond where they are, but they still insist on trying to drag me back while I attempt to nudge them ahead. I've been where they are, saw things as they saw them, believed as they believed and have no interest in returning to that particular state of ignorance. Regardless of your perspective, if despite your best efforts you fail to improve someone's understanding of something, it is time to move on.

  • sizemik
    sizemik
    I am not going to hang my understanding of the universe on something that has such a low probability of happening

    You need to understand probability as opposed to chance to see this accurrately. To take your figures . . .

    It is not because there is one chance in a billion and there are this billion planets available in the universe, that things happened this way.

    I chance in a billion + 1 billion planets . . . gives a probability factor of 1.

    I chance in a billion + 2 billion planets . . . gives a probability factor of 2 (Twice as likely as previously)

    1 chance in a billion + 100 billion planets . . . gives a probability factor of 100 (100 time more likely to occur)

    Just how many planets there are is of course difficult to ascertain . . . but estimates have been made . . .

    Sept. 25, 2003 — The chances of Earth being alone in the universe just got a whole lot smaller, as astronomers have dramatically raised the estimate on how many planets are out there.
    The new estimate is based on calculations carried out by Charles Lineweaver and Daniel Grether at the University of New South Wales. Their findings, soon to be published in the Astrophysical Journal, estimate that at least 25 percent of Sun-like stars have planets.
    "This means there are at least 100 billion stars with planets in our Galaxy," Lineweaver said. "With about 100 billion galaxies in the observable universe, our result suggests that there are at least 10 trillion planetary systems in the Universe."

    That's "at least" 10 trillion planetary sytems

    While such estimates are "best guess" scenarios to be fair . . . it highlights how limited our thinking maybe when we consider what "1 chance in a billion" might actually represent. The probability of 1 chance in a billion with these figures translates into a very high probability . . . a mathematical certainty actually.

    Hope this helps

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    A good teacher has the ability to simplify concepts to a level of understanding that is within reach of those he or she seeks to teach. I freely admit that I am a poor teacher. Your illustration of the anthropic principle is clear and simple, sizemik. Much better expressed than mine.

  • Hoffnung
    Hoffnung

    How many of these are in a goldilocks zone?

    How many are orbiting around stable stars like the sun?

    How many of these have vaccuum cleaner planets like Jupiter around?

    How many have an oxygen-rich atmosphere?

    How many contain water in abundance?

    The answers to these questions reduce chances in considerable measure.

  • sizemik
    sizemik

    Hoffnung . . . the above questions are what makes it 1 chance in a billion . . . and this could well be overly conservative.

    A good number of planets outside of the goldilocks zone have water in a frozen state . . . this is not unusual. Comets are made from ice and are not uncommon. Planets inside the zone don't for obvious reasons. Where water is present . . . (H2O) . . . oxygen will be present also. The presence of the elements necessary for life is not a high improbability . . . the other factors . . . their postioning, circular orbit etc., which enable these elements to engage in creating favourable conditions expand probability to a greater extent . . . giving a conservative figure of 1 chance in a billion.

  • pedal power
    pedal power

    With so many egg heads on show this evening, doesnt it all boil down to faith ? Faith in the obvious ,design, The human brain is by far the most complicated living machine that has ever existed, with more nueral connections, than all the supercomputers ever made, and most here say CHANCE, even now we understand so little about this incredible boilogical machine, there are thousands of nuero transmitters billions of different kinds of cells and receptor cites, that interact with with these thousands of nureo transmitters, we have very little understanding of how the almost inumerable sets of connectios and interconnections operate and how they influence behavior and perception, yet WE as mini gods spout of here as if we had the answers.Non of us are even capable to set the bounderies and paramitters of even having this discussion, because we dont have any understanding of how WE even work.

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