"Apostolic succession"?

by Jokemyster 44 Replies latest jw friends

  • Jokemyster

    Since the WT organization claims "apostolic succession" who was it that passed the torch of Gods Spirit to C.T.Russel when he founded the
    organization? What was his name? What denomination or faith?

  • Scorpion

    I am not sure what your point is, but I have some information on where Pastor Russell got his start.

    In 1876 Russell came into possession of a copy of the Second Adventist magazine THE HERALD OF THE MORNING, published by Nelson H. Barbour of Rochester, New York. They were spiritual descendants of the Millerites, who expected Christs return in 1844. William Miller was the leader of the group, I believe he was a Baptist Minister. Anyway, the Adventist expected Christ return or second coming in 1874 but were likewise disappointed. Barbour refused to accept such disappointment so he proclaimed that Crist did return in 1874, only invisibly. He based his argument on Benjamin Wilson's EMPHATIC DIAGLOTT, a Greek interlinear New Testament.

    Russell gave Barbour funds to continue publishing Herald of the Morning in exchange that he be added to the staff of the Second Adventist Magazine as an editor. Russell helped Barbour complete and publish a book called THREE WORLDS or PLAN OF REDEMPTION.

    About two years later Russell came into conflict with Barbour over the doctrine of Christ ransom. Russell resigned his post as an editor of HOTM and in July 1879 released the first issue of Zions Watch Tower and Herald of the Christ's Presence. Several Second Adventist followed Russell and believed that Pastor Russel took the place of Barbour who became unfaithful and whom was fulfilled the prophecies of Matthew 24:48-51 and Zachariah 11:15-17.

    I have more info on this, I hope this helps.

  • waiting

    Being raised a Catholic, I've got a clue. We were taught Peter (Saint) was the first, then a couple of men - then the Popes started.

    Best of recollection - Society doesn't try to go that far back to claim anointing. They do, however, point to individuals or small groups during middle ages, such as Jacobeans, etc. who really tried, even in the face of death to keep God's Bible alive. And they succeeded, from what I've learned from Watchtower articles.

    Now, it gets interesting with Russell, because he got quite a few of his ideas from Barbour and the Millerites, and Adventists, astrology, occult, Masons (Cross & Crown emblem) and study of pyramids. I don't believe that the Society counts these groups in their apostolic succession argument, do you?

    Why they count Russell is becoming hazy light to me. In fact, a recent article with a BIG picture of Russell in it, said he had hazy light and quoted 1 Cor. 13:12, "For at present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror.." I did notice that this scripture does not say "hazy light" but "hazy mirror."

    This also would lead the reader to believe that the apostles were hazy also. But please read 1 Cor. 13, 1-14, I don't believe the writer was referring to hazy, changing, light. He was referring, always, to gifts and maturity - not changes in fundamental doctrines.

    Even though the apostles and Christians didn't understand everything, to my knowledge, they didn't look to God, the stars and pyramids, etc. for their answers. I believe that's what the pagans did.

  • Shining One
    Shining One

    Catholics and the JWs both have it wrong. There was no succession. Bishops presided over individual ecclesias up until Constantine declared the Bishop of Rome, 'Pope'. Even then, the apostasy begun there did not come to complete fruition until they adopted the 'immaculate conception' doctrine which made Mary the divine, Mother of God.
    God has always worked through individuals, prophets, judges, kings, etc...

  • waiting

    Hey, Shine,

    Glad to hear from you - didn't say we were right - that would have confirmed I was either a Catholic or a JW.

    If we thought we were right, we probably wouldn't be posting in this room - we'd post at the "official" site. We just regular people here.

    Good to meet you.

  • Caliban

    Take a look at this [url= http://www.jwtruth.com/jwt/timeline.asp]Interactive JW Timeline[/url] - it shows how the early teachings developed and who developed them.
    Select 'Early Influences' and then press the 'Update Chart' button. You will need to scroll down the chart to see the early stuff.
    Lots of other info there too on other subjects - it really makes things clearer seeing when things happened in relation to each other.

  • Jokemyster

    thanks to all who responded..still makes me wonder if it was inspired by god or man..
    What kind of confidence can anyone have in an organization that has rejected almost all of the teachings of its founder and first two presidents for the first 63 of its existance?

    Edited by - jokemyster on 25 May 2000 13:8:13

  • spectromize

    Dear Jokemyster,

    In reply to:" What kind of .............................................................................for the first 63 of its existance?

    The answer is simple,

    Half truths, thinking to much of oneself and that dirty word MONEY!

  • Scorpion


    Interesting site you posted. Thanks!

  • RedhorseWoman

    Yes, Caliban, very interesting. I never realized that at one time it was believed that blacks were cursed and prayer could make them turn white. Wow, so much racial tension could have been solved by forced prayer for blacks. Little did we know LOL

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