Three ministers or elders of the Tinian congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses are asking the Superior Court to quash the government's subpoena that commands them to appear at a jury trial of a man accused of sexually abusing a girl.
Bob Morie, Emyl Lumba, and Dwight Manglona stated in their motion that the subpoena would be burdensome and oppressive since it requires the disclosure of privileged and protected information.
Clergy-penitent privilege
by Honesty 16 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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Honesty
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LostGeneration
Took a minute to figure out where this was:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Mariana_Islands
I'm sure the Watchtower is providing a full legal representation for these elders. Or maybe not. Well maybe if they get battered around the court system at their own expense they will resign and there will be three less elders in the world.
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jamiebowers
The Watchtower lost that arguement in the Gilbert Simental case in California. There is no "privilege", because more than one elder hears the confession, and then it is reported to the Watchtower. These no good, dirty, rotten bastards have no conscience when it comes to molested children.
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Band on the Run
o you have a citation or the full case name for the CA case. Every state determines its own clery privilege law, though, so a CA case will only control CA.
And how high up is the CA case? a trial court or an appellate court.
It seems to me that to deny the Witnesses' priest penitent protection is to discriminate against a religion. They can't base it on the Roman Catholic religious model only.
I never paid any attention b/c confession and absolution was not part of the Witness regimen. There has to be some expectation of privacy and confidentiality I suppose for the privilege to be upheld. I have no clue what the Witnesses do. Counselling itself may or may not have privacy involved.
I find it very interesting.
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GLTirebiter
It depends on the law in the territory of the Northern Mariana Islands, as BOTR said. The privilege there may be broader or narrower than it was in the CA case.
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Lady Lee
The WTS' claims of clergy penitant privilege is ridiculous. The privilege is connected solely when the "sinner"/accused goes to his clergyperson and confesses his sin. This is very rarely the case.
With the WItnesses it is most often the victim that goes to the clergy-person and makes a complaint. In this situation privilege does NOT apply. The victim actually wants helps to deal with the problem and expects the clergyperson to do something to resolve the issue which would naturally involve talking to other people.
The WTS has incorrectly claimed this privilege. I have a hard time understanding why they keep trying to get away with this.
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truthseekeriam
Makes me sick that they keep hiding behind that clergy privilege in order to help the molester instead of the victim!! It's so wrong.
I feel very sad for the victim and her family because when this happens it's like a punch in the gut! First your devastated that a fellow JW would take advantage of your trust and then you floored when the elders, those who your depend on to sheppard you through such a horrific experience turn their back on your child by refusing to openly share the truth with the courts. It's such a very stressful time My thoughts go out to the young lady and her family and I pray they receive some justice.
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smiddy
On the one hand they claim their is no clergy -laity class in the organization of jehovah`s witnesses
On the other hand they claim clergy penitant priveledge
go figure
smiddy
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jamiebowers
The WTS' claims of clergy penitant privilege is ridiculous. The privilege is connected solely when the "sinner"/accused goes to his clergyperson and confesses his sin. This is very rarely the case.
With the WItnesses it is most often the victim that goes to the clergy-person and makes a complaint. In this situation privilege does NOT apply. The victim actually wants helps to deal with the problem and expects the clergyperson to do something to resolve the issue which would naturally involve talking to other people.
The WTS has incorrectly claimed this privilege. I have a hard time understanding why they keep trying to get away with this.
Exactly, Lady Lee. And the rotten bastards got away with in this case. See updated article below:
http://www.saipantribune.com/newsstory.aspx?cat=1&newsID=109359
'Not guilty' verdict in Tinian child sex abuse case
By Ferdie de la Torre
ReporterA Superior Court jury came back yesterday with a not-guilty verdict on a 27-year-old man accused of sexually abusing a girl in 2004.
This developed as the prosecution decided yesterday not to call to the witness stand three ministers or elders of the Tinian congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses in the trial of Geoffrey K. Cabrera.
After deliberating for almost four hours, the Tinian Superior Court jurors reached a verdict that found Cabrera not guilty of sexual abuse in the second degree.
Associate Judge David A. Wiseman presided over the trial.
Joseph N. Camacho, court-appointed counsel for Cabrera, told Saipan Tribune last night that they are thankful to the jurors for their time and their deliberations.
"We extend our appreciation to the hard working staff of the Tinian courthouse and to the judiciary," Camacho said.
Jehovah's Witnesses Tinian congregation ministers Bob Morie, Emyl Lumba, and Dwight Manglona earlier asked the Superior Court to quash the subpoena that commands them to appear at the jury trial, saying this would be burdensome and oppressive since it requires the disclosure of privileged and protected information.
The alleged victim and defendant are members of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Cabrera was accused of sexually abusing a then 14-year-old girl in May 2004 on Tinian.
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blondie
In the US each state determines who are mandated reporters. Not all mandate clergy which is why congregations have to call the Legal Department to see if they are legally required to report. Here is an interesting article with a great deal of information.
Clergy as Mandatory Reporters of Child Abuse and Neglect: Summary of State Laws
http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/statutes/clergymandated.cfm
Here is where you can search by each state:
http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/state/
Every State, the District of Columbia, American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands have statutes that identify persons who are required to report child maltreatment under specific circumstances. 1 Approximately 26 States currently include members of the clergy among those professionals specifically mandated by law to report known or suspected instances of child abuse or neglect. 2 In approximately 18 States and Puerto Rico, any person who suspects child abuse or neglect is required to report. 3 This inclusive language appears to include clergy but may be interpreted otherwise.
Privileged Communications
As a doctrine of some faiths, clergy must maintain the confidentiality of pastoral communications. Mandatory reporting statutes in some States specify the circumstances under which a communication is "privileged" or allowed to remain confidential. Privileged communications may be exempt from the requirement to report suspected abuse or neglect. The privilege of maintaining this confidentiality under State law must be provided by statute. Most States do provide the privilege, typically in rules of evidence or civil procedure. 4 If the issue of privilege is not addressed in the reporting laws, it does not mean that privilege is not granted; it may be granted in other parts of State statutes.
This privilege, however, is not absolute. While clergy-penitent privilege is frequently recognized within the reporting laws, it is typically interpreted narrowly in the context of child abuse or neglect. The circumstances under which it is allowed vary from State to State, and in some States it is denied altogether. For example, among the States that list clergy as mandated reporters, New Hampshire and West Virginia deny the clergy-penitent privilege in cases of child abuse or neglect. Four of the States that enumerate "any person" as a mandated reporter (North Carolina, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, and Texas) also deny clergy-penitent privilege in child abuse cases.
In States where neither clergy members nor "any person" are enumerated as mandated reporters, it is less clear whether clergy are included as mandated reporters within other broad categories of professionals who work with children. For example, in Virginia and Washington, clergy are not enumerated as mandated reporters, but the clergy-penitent privilege is affirmed within the reporting laws.
Many States and territories include Christian Science practitioners or religious healers among professionals who are mandated to report suspected child maltreatment. In most instances, they appear to be regarded as a type of health-care provider. Only nine States (Arizona, Arkansas, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, South Carolina, and Vermont) explicitly include Christian Science practitioners among classes of clergy required to report. In those States the clergy-penitent privilege is also extended to those practitioners by statute.
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