The Great Day of Jehovah - the War to End All Wars (page 2)

ProdigalSon

Thanks for that reminder video, thetrueone. What an asinine religion! HAHAHAHAAA!!!!

doubtful

Was that video and excerpt from Fred Franz's speech on 1975?

Without Revelation being in the Bible as the last book, the whole concept of an Armageddon would not even exist. But Revelation is only one example of many apocalyptic writings being produced in that era. Because of the way the Bible was written and the order of the books in it, we are led to believe the wars of the ancient Israelite nation will have a parallel in a cataclysmic war in the future. Possibly this overshadows and corrupts the message that Jesus was really trying to deliver.

tec

My thoughts:

Those who enter the Kingdom won't cause harm to others or do 'bad things' because it won't be "in" them. They are filled with light. Peace and love and mercy and humility are within them. It is their nature. They are the 'good seed' that is sown. Those who do not enter the kingdom do not have these things - peace, mercy, love - within them. They are filled with darkness instead. They are the seed that was sown by the enemy. No more enemy (no matter how you define Satan - as a being or as a nature), then no more bad seed to be sown.

The war happens because those who belong to Satan ride out to make war/destroy those who belong to God.

Tammy

transhuman68

The way Armageddon is interpreted by the Witnesses is that they themselves are the good guys- the churches, the U.N. and governments are the bad guys; and everyone who would rather stay in bed on a Saturday morning than go witnessing end up as 'collateral damage'- they become birdfood, too. This concept is based solely on the book of Revelation, which has long been considered suspect and possibly not even deserving a place in the New Testament. The rest of New Testament describes a kind of rapture event- something more individual and selective.

tec

Yes, but the NT does also describe the sheep and the goats, the chaff being thrown into the fire, etc. The problem with Revelations, imo, is that everyone thinks they know how to interpret it. But it doesn't seem to me that they ever really read it.

*shrugs*

Tammy

designs

Can there be any happy interpretation of God wiping out human civilization.......

PSacramento

Imagine if the Book of Revelations had been lost or had been "voted" out of the Catholic Canon or had been dropped out of the Protestant canon?

Would there even be any Jw's? at all?

d

I think the whole concept is crazy, it is used as means to control people.

Larsinger58

Wow, there are some really good questions asked here. My posts are usually way too long and I think people get lost with all the loose threads, so I'm just going to add this quick concept and not try to connect any dots.

All was well in heaven for a while until Satan's beauty and ego started to corrupt him and he became a huge pain in the arse to everybody in heaven with all his legalistic and philosophic issues in opposition to Jehovah and Jesus. So basically the issue came up as to how to get rid of Satan, both legally and morally? So basically Jehovah came up with the concept that he would exercise his right to limit the life of any creature. Just as animals are born, grow up, have babies, then grow old and die, or a flower has its glorious moment before falling off the stem, so would the life of all the angels.

So basically God called the good angels together and asked if they would be wiling to die for a short while then be brought back to life under the "rules of resurrection"? If so, then Jehovah would exercise his legal right to require all creates die just once. But this would be without moral judgment. That is, ALL the angels would die, both good and bad, including Jesus Christ. The caveat here, though, is that once dead, Jehovah could pick and choose which angels he would resurrect.

It's sort of llike throwing the baby out with the bathwater then sneaking back and getting the clean baby later.

The result is that Satan would not be brought back, now would anyone have to listen to all that whining legalistic philosphies. You know? Issues like Satan blaming God for the way he ended up by making him so beautiful. Or whether or not Satan really deserved to die. Or if God could see the future, why didn't he stop it? Any number of questions that would take centuries to hear in court to its minutest detail. But if the good angels volunteered to die then there is no need for any moral discussion.

So to get rid of Satan, God throws all his children into the fire and burns them up. Stan can't complain about that. He's not being singled out or persecuted. God takes a "nolo contendere" (no contest) defence for all Satan's issues. This is about a complaining tenant who complains incessantly about every little single tiny thing they don't like about the apartment they are renting. "There's a little string hanging off the curtains that needs to be trimmed," "I examined the walls with a magnifying glass and the paint is not even, it's thicker in some places than others. I would like to have the place repainted and the paint to be 100% even in every spot, even the corners." The tenant is threatening to sue in court. But guess what. It's a month-to-month lease. So before any court action takes place, the right of the landlord to end the lease is evoked. Thus all those issues are moot now without the apartment being occupied by this tenant. In other words, with all of Satan's complaints and confusing issues, if he is NOT ALIVE then it really doesn't matter.

So you see, that's how Jehovah tricked Satan. Because when we think of "death" we think it is horrible. But only because it is permanent. But, in fact, death isn't permanent if Jehovah doesn't want it to be. Death is only that place of burning torment, psychologically, if it is permanent. But if you die and come back in a short while to live again, how bad was death?

So in Eden, Satan thought he was killing off billions of mankind, all of Adam's unborn children, permanently. Ahhh, that was satisfying and worthy of his own death sentence. But God turned the tables on him and offered to redeem those Satan had killed with the ransom sacrifice, the "resurrection!" So in the end, all of mankind that ultimately get sentenced to death were going to be the ones Jehovah was going to exclude from the kingdom anyway.

NOW, FOR THE ISSUE ABOUT "WHAT IF" AFTER BEING ANOINTED, SOMEONE DECIDES TO SIN? Well, good question. But for the JIOR, Jehovah has simply removed the law. That is, without LAW, there is no sin. In heaven, there is no law. There are just thoughts and discussions. You couldn't kill anybody or steal anything. You could be disrespectful and irritating, but you couldn't really DO anything that was a "sin."

So Jehovah created man. A physical being in the image of God who was given laws to obey. Simple ones, but ones that would carry the death penalty. So in the physical world, SIN was possible. And through sin, judgment and death. So the two trees in the Garden which were forbidden, was not a trap for Adam or Eve as much as for Satan, who had a means of using them to create chaos.

In other words, in heaven, Satan was like a roaring lion and a manslayer, but someone who was behind bars in a guilded cage. Talk is cheap. There was no way Satan could express himself via any deed. So by creating the physical world with mankind and laws, it was like opening up that cage, enabling Satan to carry out his heart's desires.

Think of Satan like a bank robber or drug addict. Behind bars for 10 years, he can claim he hasn't robbed a bank in ten years and has been sober. But was that his true choice? It's a different story to make that claim outside of prison where you could actually rob a bank or do drugs. So as bad as Satan was, he hadn't legally committed any crimes or murders, just expressed his desire to do so if he had the chance. So Jehovah opened the cage and gave him the chance. God met his dare. Satan made good on his claim and managed to kill of Adam and all his children, but then God changed the playing field and made it so that some of Adam's children would have a second chance. But not Satan. Satan would be put death, with no hope of any resurrection.

So likewise, with the JIOR, only just the opposite. The "JIOR" are the secret worshippers of Jehovah and it means "Jehovah Is Our Righteousness." They are like undercover drug agents who might purchase and even use drugs in the presence of others in order to infiltrate the drug community and expose drug dealers and drug users. When you get to court though, they are not charged because that was part of their job, even though, technically, for a while, they might sold and used drugs! Same with the JIOR. Jehovah removes the LAW from them after they have been sealed, thus they are not able to sin any more. Or at least their sins are not held against them, no more than a drug agent's drug selling and drug use are held against them.

So therefore, even if Satan pulled out all stops to try to get them to sin and break their vow to Jehovah, it wouldn't matter because there's nothing they could do to "sin" any more. In other words, say someone gets sealed. Satan might cause the most beautiful woman in the world, the dream woman of this person to suddenly show up in his life and she could possibly cause that person to feel pressure to compromise, pressuring them to commit fornication. But if they are not under law any more, then there is no such thing as "fornication" for them and they are free to have sex with that woman if they want to. So even if tempted, its not a sin. A "sin" is what Jehovah says is a "sin" and if its not a sin, then its not a sin. If he says something is a sin for one person and not a sin for another, then that's up to him. But that is no different than traffic laws that some have to obey but that others don't. For instance, policemen and ambulances and fire engines can break the speed limit and run red lights if they want. But they are authorized to do so. If not, you get a ticket.

One thing is clear though. It would seem that once Judgment Day is over and everyone is living forever, that there will be no more children born any more. There will be no more Satan to tempt anyone and everyone will have decided which side of the issues they would come down on. So the "sovereignty" issues are decided once for all time. Everybody chooses their sides and that's it.

And perhaps, even if some humans after a long time are transplanted to other planets to begin new families, the original couple can pass on eternal life to their children. They might individually be held accountable but the Eden scenario of the sins of the parents transferring to their unborn is now an impossible situation.

So it's strange. Just as in the Bible, sometimes Jehovah commands his servants to break laws. Jesus led the pack and broke the sabbath law all the time. So likewise, the JIOR sometimes, as part of their cover or to communicate end up violating moral laws. Since I'm the Christ and not better than my followers, since some of them have to do the hard work of being morally compromised, I get commanded to do certain things I would not ordinarily do, like have sex with men in public (i.e. a bath house, in front of WTS spies), just to trip them up. Since being the messiah, I've had three serious lovers. But it is not safe for me to live alone so having a lover provides a tremendous context of protection for me. For a long while in Hawaii my lover lived in the same building. So that makes it hard to try anything, like trying to harm me or something if I were living alone, since you never knew when the lover from upstairs would pop in on me or spend the night. Plus, if you have a lover, they are going to ask about you if you suddenly come up missing. So I needed a certain degree of protection and unpredictability so I ended up with lovers and ended up having sex with them. It was necessary for my own protection. It is unsafe for me to live alone. That offers too many opportunities for "accidents" to happen.

By the way, the local congregation knows I claim to be the messiah because it was in my letter of dissociation. So they know. I know they keep tabs on me, but some things are public knowledge.

For instance, I got induced into using crack cocaine by the JIOR for some reason. I had never had an interest in drugs before. But the temptation to do drugs was about "charges." That is, cocaine is so expensive, you don't want to waste any. So when you see someone inhale and then blow out this thick cloud of smoke, it's disturbing. So sometimes, especially when the drug is scarce, what you will do is blow the smoke into someone else's mouth, which is called a charge. Oh yes, I'm making this up as I go. This is ALLEGEDLY. But if your transgendered and like straight men, this is a great way to get kissed! Which is what I liked. So I would buy drugs for rather handsome, young fine men who would agree to give me charges. But to me I was kissing my utmost fantasy lover. So it was wonderful. The crack never meant anything, it was the intimacy I was missing. I didn't have a lover at the time. Anyway, I got hooked up with this incredibly gorgeous man who liked cocaine and liked giving charges. So to make a long storty short, I was supplying him and trying to get him off drugs and one day he just ran off with my car. Ooops! I live with my parents who are active witnesses and after 5 days of not coming home, without the car, I had to tell them what happened. Of course, they figured out right away this was my "lover", la tee dah! So that gets out into the community. My cousins all knew this guy and it was rather public. So I could hardly pretending to be the Bible thumper and all that when it was more than apparent I was doing drugs and having some type of homosexuality intimacy with this otherwise, "straight man." But so what. The JIOR started me out using drugs in the first place, so I figured I needed to, as the messiah, investigate the REAL WORLD of drugs and what it really was about and to see some of the people who were addicted. Further, it afforded me some private contacts I would otherwise not have been able to make. You know, if you're spending all night at some crack house people figure you're doing drugs. Or if you spend all night in a gay bath house, people figure you're having gay sex. But in reality, they were covers for JIOR contacts.

Plus, crack is not addictive like they claim. Studies have shown that many people who are heavy users at one time just stop for several months when they want. Maybe they have a job that does drug testing or just want to quit or want to stop spending money. So it is psychologically addictive but not physically addictive. In the meantime, I can't drink alcohol anymore without my kidneys paining me now. So my addiction is shifting to painkillers now, perhaps, though I don't really have any severe addictions. But if I'm ordered by the JIOR to see something or do something and the context is safer in the context of the drug culture, then I end up having to do that. I suppose the critical problem with that is arrest and imprisonment, which is unlikely for a first-time offender, but being the messiah, if I end up in prison its because I need to meet someone in prison. Or maybe I'm supposed to get arrested and tell the judge "I'm the messiah and I was ordered to do it!" After which they send me to some mental health facility? So it is just all up for grabs. But ironically, when I was here the first time, the type of people I liked socializing with wer prostitutes and outcasts. So I'm doing the same thing now. All my good friends are drug dealers and crack hoes. So I haven't changed much. But then, I don't see their labels. I see them. I see their tears. I see their unhappiness. I see them coping. And amazingly, many believe God protect them.

So, of course, it is one thing to read about the drug culture and community and another thing to actually KNOW what its about and to get to know people personally and to see it up close. To see the addicts, to see the harm, the disrupted lives, but also to see some functioning addicts wtih jobs and money enough to buy it and enjoy it and then quit and be good for long periods of time.

Anyway, I have an interesting life. So far quite private, but I guess being who I am, my days of privacy are soon to be over. I'll miss it. No one will ever accuse me of having a big ego, that is, needing the approval of others. I do have a huge ego, but I don't have a need for outside validation. I don't seek popularity. I had enough of that when I was in show business performing as Diana Ross. Any celebrity will tell you its a PAIN being famous when you want to just do the simple things. So I cherish that. It's great to just be a nobody in your personal life, even if you know in other circles you are considered a "star" or celebrity. BUT... as I close... the experience of being on stage and having that spot light on you, or reading your name in the paper and all that is valuable experience for the level of celebrity I'll have once the millennium starts. So I've had experience being the center of attention at some times or amazing others with my talent and being able to be gracious. But I tell you, it is NOT what you think. Just this one last example. I sing karaoke sometimes and I sang this Josh Groban song. It was okay. But this woman was so mesmerized by the singing and the sentiment of a lost one, she came to me and wanted to hang out. She wanted to dance and get to know me and all that. We all want to do that with celebrities. But I was gambling and the song was over. I appreciated the compliment but I really was doing something else. But it is rude to just tell someone to get lost after it seems you invited their friendship and approval by singing for them.

So when people think I'm claiming to be the messiah to get attention? Well, it's not THAT type of attention. I almost loathe to admit to anyone I'm the messiah, but I have to admit it if they figure it out. But I've had my full "15 minutes of fame" and actually, 20 or more but I could have done with ten. I like my quite private space. I enjoy adulation but I don't seek it. I'm not desperate for it like some people.

Um, what was I talking about?......

LS

The Great Day of Jehovah - the War to End All Wars

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