Is the governing body any different from Osama Bin Laden?

by Joliette 20 Replies latest jw friends

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  inbetween

  Standfirm: Not at all. Anyone who refuses a blood transfusion does so of their own free will. No one forced them. This includes accepting the consequences that may bring, including death, although this is very rare.

  so, no one forces people not to agree with Osama bin Laden then ? If all converted to Islam and followed Osama, no one would have to die right ? Is that your definition of free will ?

  You as an active and seemingly theocratic well versed Witness, you know, that accepting a blood transfusion leads to a Judicial comittee, no doubt. There , one has to repent, which is feeling deep remorse over the sin. Now, if that transfusion saved your life, how can you real feel remorse over that ?

  Either you pretend regret (what else can it be, unless somebody is really suizidal) or you get dfd (technically you disassociate, but thats just semantics and any genuine person has to admit that)
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  StandFirm

  People who become JWs do so with the full knowledge that we do not accept blood transfusions, and of the teaching on DF/DA persons. When they refuse blood they do so with full knowledge of whatever possibility of harm there may be in doing so. No one forced them to become JWs.

  Further, usually what happens in an operating room can be kept confidential. And no one is forced to fill out a DPA. Some JWs do not have theirs filled out (I suspect mostly because of laziness). So a JW who really wants can accept blood without DAing themselves.

  Finally, 'refusing blood' does not equal death. Nearly every procedure can be done and has been done with no blood transfusions.
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  Joliette

  ^ I thought active and believeing Jehovah's Witnesses werent suppose to be on this forum?

  Are you disobeying the faithful and not-so-discreet slave who doesnt care about you.
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  Joliette

  Standfirm:

  Wait a mintue: Are you an active baptized JW's? Doesnt your faith and not-so-discreet slave tell you not to be on internet forums, blogs, chat rooms, etc?

  Why do you disobey the faithful and discreet slave who doesnt care about you?
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  Joliette

  Standfirm:

  Wait a mintue: Are you an active baptized JW's? Doesnt your faith and not-so-discreet slave tell you not to be on internet forums, blogs, chat rooms, etc?

  Why do you disobey the faithful and discreet slave who doesnt care about you?
• 

  Morbidzbaby

  So a JW who really wants can accept blood without DAing themselves.

  Not true. A great many believing JW's would feel so guilt-stricken from receiving a transfusion accidentally (AKA "not filling out their DPA due to laziness") that they would go to the elders to purge themselves of their guilt. They are then at the mercy of the elders, who decide whether this person should be considered DA'ed or not. And those who did willingly accept a transfusion would more than likely be found out...through hospital liason committee, through other JW's visiting and overhearing, etc. Nothing is truly private when you are a JW. And you can be sure that once the elders find out, you're f**ked.

  Interesting you mention that people know full well the policy on blood, DAing and DFing... These are not policies they want the general public to know. They are not revealed until a "bible study" (I use that term loosely) has been well-established. What do I mean? The blood issue isn't raised until chapter 13 of the Bible Teach book. And disfellowshipping?? Not mentioned in the Bible Teach book at all. Oh, no... it's not even mentioned in the follow-up book Worship the Only True God... the "student" must wait until chapter 3 of the God's Love book to be introduced to disfellowshipping (which is a pretty damn cruel irony). Now, how is that disclosure? The "student" is already exhibiting signs of complete thought reform, Watchtower mind control, etc. and may have already gotten baptized by this point (I know quite a few who did as soon as they finished the Bible Teach and Worship God books). So now this is sprung on them, complete with a section in the appendix of exactly how disfellowshipped persons are to be viewed and treated. Now that's some friggin' fine print for ya!! Not all converts know about the DFing policy. And it's not something the WTBTS wants the public to know about. That's why there is no mention of it in the Awake or the public edition of the Watchtower. That's why when I was chatting with a JW online, she was baffled at how a "worldly person" knew so much about DFing. She was shocked. "How do YOU know about disfellowshipping??" It's a dirty little Watchtower secret...one most people don't know about...not even a lot of those who are on the verge of baptism.
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  WhatWasIThinking

  I know quite a few who did as soon as they finished the Bible Teach and Worship God books

  I got dunked after just the Bible Teach book and it was less than 6 months after my first study. No one was DA'd/DF'd while I was studying and the policy was a surprise when I found out about it. So were many other things that I didn't learn until after baptism.
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  Joliette

  ^ Yep WhatwasI thinking, thats how they like to trap you.
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  Morbidzbaby

  WhatWasIThinking, thanks for relating that. Proof positive that the policies on DF'ing and DA'ing are not shown to students in black and white. No. They wait until they've made the step of baptism and dedication to the publishing company and then say "Oh, by the way...if you screw up, we have to treat you like you're dead...but hey, congratulations on getting baptized!"

  Somehow, I don't think this was what Jesus had in mind.
• 

  inbetween

  standfirm:

  People who become JWs do so with the full knowledge that we do not accept blood transfusions, and of the teaching on DF/DA persons. When they refuse blood they do so with full knowledge of whatever possibility of harm there may be in doing so. No one forced them to become JWs.

  So what about minors being babtized ? Do you really think a 12 year old, trying to please mum and dad, trusting whatever they say, can understand all the implications of the blood issue for example ?

  Even adults, in order to make a real free decision, would you not agree, one has to be able to carefully weigh all arguments in such a serious matter ?

  I can tell you, in my congo usually I got the parts on the program about blood, because it was thought, I had a good grasp of this rather complicated issue, and I believed it too. Well, after reading many arguments here and elsewhere about blood, I can honestly say, I knew nothing. The society only presents information, that is in line with their doctrine, while on the same time discouraging strongly to look elsewhere. People should not make an informed decsion, rather this is manipulation. Embarrassing for Gods true people, inmho !!

  Further, usually what happens in an operating room can be kept confidential. And no one is forced to fill out a DPA. Some JWs do not have theirs filled out (I suspect mostly because of laziness). So a JW who really wants can accept blood without DAing themselves.

  As Morbidzbaby mentioned, its rather hard to keep things private, but thats not the issue here anyway. I can keep fornication private, if I really make it smart. The point is, when it is known to the elders, a JC will be set up.

  Finally, 'refusing blood' does not equal death. Nearly every procedure can be done and has been done with no blood transfusions.

  True, and also true that transfusions are often used too easily and fast by some medical staff, the same as operations are done too quick or antibiotics are prescribed, when its not needed. But its not the business of any religion to interfere with medical treatment of a patient. And to my surprise a few years ago, I was told by an HLC member, that there still are situations, were the question is, death or blood. It was one of the enlightneing moments for me to took this issue serious and make research somewhere else. Before JW are usually made to believe, there is anyway always an alternative treatment, that is even much better than any blood transfusion.