by Chalam 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
@ DJW & Phizzy - it's pretty clear that Paul did not think/believe/teach that Jesus was God, or God's equal:
“...and when all things are thus subject to him, [God Almighty] then the Son himself will also be made subordinate to God who made all things subject to him, [Jesus] and thus God will be all in all. (1 Corithians 15:28 - NEB)
How could God Almighty subject/subordinate himself to himself?
How could God Almighty subject/subordinate himself to himself?
As has been explained many times on this forum, Christians claim that Jesus is BOTH God and man. The bible and Jesus himself sometimes talk about Jesus as a man and at other times as God.
"God is a Spirit". But men are tri-partite beings made of flesh and blood, soul and spirit. When a person rejects the materialist definition of man that the WT has taught and accepts the biblical definition of man, it is all easily explained.
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. - (1 Thessalonians 5:23)
For the Word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. - (Hebrews 4:12)
Hi Guys,
Didn't think this would develop into a thread about Trinity. I was hoping it would be about the distinctions between the Watchtower gospeland that of Paul's.
It seems to me that the gospel that Jehovah's Witnesses preach is very distinct from Paul's gospel in terms of:
a. message content,
b. nature of salvation
c benefits of salvation
d. means of salvation
You are right BoogerMan in thinking that it makes no sense to think that God Almighty would subject subject/subordinate himself to himself (regardless of what Sea Breeze has repeatedly said). The REB (which is the revision of the NEB) and the NEB do not say "God Almighty" in 1 Corinthians 15:28. The "him" mentioned in the phrase "thus subject to him" is clearly Jesus, and clearly not God the Father. Why did you insert the words "God Almighty" into that verse?
Also though 1 Corinthians 15:28 does not include the phrase "except God the father" after the phrase "all things", the meaning of such is clearly implied in that verse, for obviously the verse is not saying that God the Father (the Yahweh of the Hebrew Scriptures) subjected himself to the Son of God. The translators of the NEB agree with that, for their NEB in 1 Corinthians 15:27 says the following. "Scripture says, 'He has put all things in subjection under his feet. 'But in saying 'all things', it clearly means to exclude God who subordinates them'. The REB says exactly the same thing in that verse, except for saying "made all things subject to him" instead of saying "subordinates them" at the end of that verse. Paul's words as translated in the NEB and the REB thus teach the same doctrine that the WT and its NWT teaches for 1 Corinthians 15:27-28. See even the KJV translation of verse 27 which gives the same idea.
Vanderhoven7, Paul's gospel regarding Jesus Christ might not have been exactly the same as the good news (gospel) taught by Jesus himself (as attributed to Jesus in the gospel books called "According to Mark" and "According to Matthew"). Matthew 24:14 (which was referred to in the opening post of this topic) clearly states that that which is called "this gospel" (or "this good news") is "of the kingdom", namely of what Jesus proclaimed was the very soon coming of the kingdom of God to the Earth under the rule of the Messiah! See Mark 1:14-15 which makes this even more clear - even more obvious!
Likewise the ministry of John the Baptist (as recorded in "According to Mark" [see Mark 1:1-5] and in "According to Matthew" [see Matthew 3:1-2]) was in trying to get the people in Israel ready for that alleged approaching kingdom (which John thought was very near), which included urging people to repent and to get baptized in symbol of their repentance.
How can Jesus say (1) that the Father is greater than I while at the same time claim (2) that he possessed ALL authority in heaven and earth?
How could Jesus have a beginning by being born and have been the Creator as well?
Didn't think this would develop into a thread about Trinity. I was hoping it would be about the distinctions between the Watchtower gospeland that of Paul's.
Christians preach a gospel of reconciliation:
2 Corinthians 5:18
Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
The Watchtower preaches the gospel of the kingdom that the 144K male Jewish virgins will be preaching during the Great Tribulation. Why? Because the watchtower believes that the Church Age ended in 1914 or thereabouts. And, with that alleged ending.... the ministry of reconciliation ended as well.
This of course is nothing more than an evil attempt to deny people peace with God. No, can't have that. You must slave for the WT to get life now.
For perspective, only 4 out of 30 times in the NT is the gospel characterized as being of the kingdom:
New Testament occurrences of the term "Gospel of _______" .
Gospel of Jesus Christ (or Christ ) – 12 times
Gospel of God – 7 times
Gospel of the kingdom – 4 times
Gospel of peace – 2 times
Gospel of the grace of God – 1 time
Gospel of your salvation – 1 time
Gospel of the uncircumcision – 1 time
Gospel of the circumcision – 1 time
Gospel of his Son – 1 time
To assess whether or not Jehovah’s Witnesses are preaching the same gospel as Paul preached, we must examine a number of factors including:
a. gospel content
b. nature of salvation
c. means of and criteria for salvation
d. hope offered by the gospel
Let’s look at content first.
Here is what Paul says to the Galatians in chapter 1:6–9 NWT
I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from the One who called you with Christ’s undeserved kindness to another sort of good news. 7. Not that there is another good news; but there are certain ones who are causing you trouble and wanting to distort the good news about the Christ. 8. However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed. 9. As we have said before, I now say again, Whoever is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed. Gal.1:6-9 NWT
But according to the Watchtower good news we find:
What Now Distinguishes the Good News to Be Preached? What vital thing has now been added to the good news of the kingdom of God that Jesus Christ and his zealous apostles used to preach nineteen hundred years ago? This, namely, the birth of God’s Messianic kingdom in the heavens at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914. And after the ensuing war in the invisible heavens and the ouster of Satan the Devil and his demons from heaven and down to earth, this announcement was sounded forth, to be added to the good news, as stated in Revelation 12:9-12 WT 67 12/15 pp. 758
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“Note, however, that the message that Jesus said would be proclaimed in our day goes beyond what his followers preached in the first century.” Benefit From Theocratic Ministry School Education page 279:
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"That issue of The Watch Tower further stated: "in 1920,...Bible Students came to a correct understanding of our Lord's prophecy contained in Matthew 24:14. They then realized that 'this gospel' which was to be preached in all the world for a testimony to the Gentiles or all nations, was not a gospel of a kingdom yet to come but a gospel to the effect that the Messianic King has begun his reign over the earth. "WT Feb 1, 2006 p.25
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If God Has an Organization, What Is It? Let the honest-hearted person compare the kind of preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom done by the religious systems of Christendom during all the centuries with that done by Jehovah’s Witnesses since the end of World War I in 1918. They are not one and the same kind. That of Jehovah’s Witnesses is really “gospel,” or “good news,” as of God’s heavenly kingdom that was established by the enthronement of his Son Jesus Christ at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914. (Luke 21:24) WT 1981 5/1 pp.17-18
Conclusion: The Watchtower is not preaching the same gospel the Apostles preached in the first century; instead they admit that they go beyond what Paul wrote and add extra content to the gospel. So what did they add?
Excellent quotes you dug up there VH7!
It's like they want to be cursed of God. Evil slaves.... every one of them.
The Gospel message is there is no work that needs to be accomplished or that can be accomplished for salvation. It is finished. Nailed to the cross with Christ. Believe what he did sufficient and live your life not being a jerkface jerk and you will be saved. It is called grace.
Jehovah witnesses are just like every other false religion of the world. If I do this, I will be rewarded with that. That is not how it works according to the bible.
