Compare and contrast JW "forgiveness" with Judaism and Christianity

by Terry 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Terry

  Similarly deathbed conversions are often permitted because they have the same connotation to forgiveness.

  Perhaps the most momentous conversion in Western history was that of Constantine I, Roman Emperor. While his belief in Christianity occurred long before his death, it was only shortly before his death in 337 that he was baptised.

  Conversions at the point of death have a long history. The first recorded deathbed conversion appears in the Gospel of Luke where the good thief, crucified beside Jesus, expresses belief in Christ. Jesus accepts his conversion, saying “Today you shall be with Me in Paradise". [1]

  wikipedia.org
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  Rocky_Girl

  In anticipation of Yom Kippur, a Jew will ask forgiveness of all the people he/she has wronged that year. If an apology is made and forgiveness is not given three times, the wrong is automatically forgiven anyway. Yom Kippur is more about making peace with your own self and asking God for forgiveness of the wrongs you committed against Him.
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  tec

  The only sin Jehovah can forgive is a sin AGAINST HIMself. Adam sinned directly against GOD. By proxy Jesus could act the part (ritually) of dying FOR that sin of ADAM and Jehovah could prove he forgives ADAM (and all his offspring) by demonstrably raising Jesus from the dead.

  The sin Jehovah forgives with Jesus' death is the sin of ADAM and not every sin all humans through history commit. Most of THOSE sins were by humans against other humans.

  How do you know that sinning against those God loves is not a sin against God? Destroy or damage something that belongs to someone else, and you have wronged the 'owner' of those belongings. Those who belong to God... well... belong to God.

  Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.

  I'm not sure I understood the text you put after this quote. You do or you don't see the justice in this?

  Tammy
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  GLTirebiter

  Catholics had to a. Attend Mass b. Confess sins and do penance or pay c.Be absolved by the priest

  You can steal, fornicate, lie, cheat and commit mayhem and then turn to God and be forgiven by displaying a penitent heart. Even so late as on your deathbed in many cases. Yet, the people who you took from, injured, belittled, wronged and destroyed have no say in this transaction! The victims suffer the wrongs and God makes it even-steven on the scale of justice!

  Forgiveness is not a free pass, as far as the Catholic church is concerned. While there is nothing you can do that is enough to deserve grace and forgiveness, sins are forgiven if there is a sincere effort to stop the sinful behavior and to make ammends for the harm done. If this is lacking, then confession was insincere and ineffective; you aren't forgiven if you intend to keep doing the same thing or continue to enjoy the ill-gotten gains (either physically or emotionally). The grace of forgiveness is there, but you are free to reject it by not making the effort to act properly. Here is how this doctrine is stated in the Catechism:

  1451 Among the penitent's acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is "sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again.

  1459 Many sins wrong our neighbor. One must do what is possible in order to repair the harm (e.g., return stolen goods, restore the reputation of someone slandered, pay compensation for injuries). Simple justice requires as much. But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor. Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused. Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must "make satisfaction for" or "expiate" his sins. This satisfaction is also called "penance."
• 

  possible-san

  Terry.

  I may have stated like this several months ago.

  debator.

  I would like to tell you an interesting information.
  On my website, I have tried to translate the Bible from Greek.
  http://godpresencewithin.web.fc2.com/pages/possible/possibleyaku.html

  There, that Greek word "charis" is always translated into "Kawaranu Ai" in Japanese.
  
  If that Japanese word "Kawaranu ai" is translated into English, it is "unchanging love" "constant love" "unfailing love."
  For instance, "Ephesians 6:24." (In Hebrew, that Greek word is "Chesedh" mostly.)
  http://godpresencewithin.web.fc2.com/pages/possible/ephesians06.html

  That is telling us that God's "unfailing love."
  And that is "Grace."

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200266/6/Grace-According-to-JWs-Your-thoughts-will-be-appreciated

  Although "UNDESERVED kindness" is , of course, a translation of a word by the NWT/GB, I think that the original meaning of that word is teaching us "God's LOVE."

  possible
• 

  Terry

  Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.

  I'm not sure I understood the text you put after this quote. You do or you don't see the justice in this?

  Tammy

  This saying of Jesus in the so-called "model" prayer indicates no AUTOMATIC forgiveness.

  If we have not FIRST ourselves granted to others the request of being forgiven Jehovah witholds forgiveness from us.

  In effect, Jehovah mirrors our own values.
• 

  tec

  Yes. With the measure you use, it will be measured against you.

  I don't see that God is mirroring our values. He's against hypocrisy, which is what you are showing if you expect to be forgiven, but refuse to forgive others. Christ spoke quite strongly against hypocrisy, if you recall.

  Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Forgive and you shall be forgiven.

  Do you see the justice in it, or not?

  Tammy
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  possible-san

  Terry.

  In effect, Jehovah mirrors our own values.

  
  I think that you know "truth."

  Ps 18:26 (KJV)
  "With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward."
  http://bible.cc/psalms/18-26.htm

  But I think that the "New Thought churches" in your country has probably taught that, from 100 years before.
  
  Since God mirrors our own heart, he also becomes "Satan."

  possible
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  designs

  I try to reguarly watch Custer's Last Stand to fully phathom Christianity in all of its ethical glory....
• 

  Terry

  Tammy lammy ding dong bell rung out this peal:

  I don't see that God is mirroring our values. He's against hypocrisy, which is what you are showing if you expect to be forgiven, but refuse to forgive others. Christ spoke quite strongly against hypocrisy, if you recall.

  Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Forgive and you shall be forgiven.

  Do you see the justice in it, or not?

  Justice is getting what you've earned and deserve. Justice is also not getting what isn't yours and is undeserved.

  If GRACE is an unfettered "free" gift----how does your statement above logically follow?

  Has man earned Grace? Does he deserve life everlasting since he is a sinner?

  It is the very fact that JUSTICE is God's perfect balance and cannot be set aside which makes this contradictory.

  In Eden, the Jesus persona could have immediately stepped up to the plate and saved us thousands of years of morbid grief. No?