Jesus is the 'fine' shepherd or is he the 'Good' Shepherd

by Anony Mous 12 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  GLTirebiter

  Similar to the Greek word for good (agathos′) is another word, kalos′. The latter denotes that which is intrinsically good, beautiful, well adapted to its circumstances or ends (as fine ground, or soil; Mt 13:8, 23), and that which is of fine quality, including that which is ethically good, right, or honorable

  I think that if you wish to use a different adjective to differentiate kalos from agathos, the more appropriate choice would be righteous: good in the moral and ethical sense. That is consistent with the logic of the statement in the quote, and also fits the context of John 10 much better than the weaker word "fine", which dilutes the moral connotations of either "good" or "righteous".
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  possible-san

  Anony Mous.

  "IMHO that is most JW's."

  Yeah, that is what I stated.
  But they/GB have explained in their publications that the reason why they translated into such a word ("fine").

  "However coming back to your point, if kalos (fine, superb) is better than agathos (merely good), why does Jesus assign God the label 'Good' (agathos) but refers to himself not as the merely good shepherd but as the better 'Good' or 'Fine' (kalos) shepherd?"

  I think that it is interesting reasoning.
  But, probably, that is not related to the intention of that phrase of Jesus.

  First of all, in Hebrew, it is the same word ("tov", in Hebrew New Testament, Bible Society in Israel, 1996).
  But, the authors who wrote the Bible in Greek used different Greek words (agathos/kalos).

  Moreover, the GB has not said, "kalos is better than agathos."
  They say that it is different Greek words, although both words are alike.
  
  They have translated those "synonyms" (agathos/kalos) to "different English words".
  Even if you do not like the translation of a word "fine", I think that you should valuate their effort.

  "This would appear to make Jesus a better 'God' than the Hebrew God or at least equal to him if we accept (as JW's do) that the Bible they have is the closest to the original text and a superior translation."

  That is an interesting view.
  But, probably, that is not a view of JWs.
  
  For JWs, Jehovah is the most excellent/fine shepherd.
  For them, that "Jesus is the fine shepherd" means that "Jehovah is the fine shepherd, too."

  possible
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  AGuest

  why does Jesus assign God the label 'Good' (agathos) but refers to himself not as the merely good shepherd but as the better 'Good' or 'Fine' (kalos) shepherd?

  "A review of both of these words, however, suggest that whatever scribe first copied them confused them (perhaps thought them interchangeable, as is the case with many English words), which isn't unusual." Happened all the time, dear Anony Mous (peace to you!), especially due to confusion over symbol/letters because of poor penmanship, low-grade paper/parchment/ink, which sometimes caused "running", torn manuscripts, guesswork... etc. A plethora of reasons.

  The point, though, given your "investigation", is that same words were NOT applied by him to himself and Father. Which, if he WERE the Father (or "God"), would have been totally unnecessary (as opposed to just unnecessary).

  the proverb is silly really, since a dead shepherd cannot protect his flock in the future, so by 'surrendering' his soul on their behalf has then left them open to any kind of danger afterwards, if you think about it.

  A shepherd STILL dead, yes, dear shepherd (peace to you, as well!). This Shepherd, however, rose from the dead and is alive. Very much alive. Which is why he said, when he appeared to his disciples after coming back from the dead, "Look! I am with you... ALL the days...". God's Word... the Holy One of Israel, who is His Son and Christ... and my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... is alive... and exerts power, dear one.

  Again, peace to you both!

  A slave of Christ,

  SA