Question for our WT history experts

by tenyearsafter 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  TD

  ...the connections and similarities in imagery, symbolism and even belief structures are undeniable.

  Yep.

  I think it's important to identify which direction the connection goes though. The cross and crown for example is used by Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Episcopal, Presbyterian, Baptist and Chrstian Science churches today. Did these various Christian denominations acquire the cross and crown from the Masons or did the Masons acquire the cross and crown from Christianity? Which is the "Cart" and which is the "Horse" here?

  Same thing goes for the Knights Templar. They were originally a Christian order, so it's not a surprise that they would use Christian iconography. That does not in and of itself establish that they were the source of it. (As opposed to simply borrowing it from the church.)

  The use of insignia and emblems from medieval Christian/military orders by modern Christian groups is even more convoluted vis a vis the Masons because there first needs to be a legitimate connection between them. Are the Masons directly connected with the medieval Knights Templar? I've watched the videos that people post here and read the books I could find and had a good laugh. Sizeable historical gaps invariably get filled in with crap from the author's imagination.
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  Atlantis

  1879, Zion's Watch Tower, July pg.4 "And not alone to help awaken, but to assist them to "put on the whole armor of God, that they may be able to stand in the evil day;" and, besides all this, that giving all diligence, they add to their faith, virtue, and to virtue, knowledge, self control, [temperance,] brotherly kindness, charity; when, as a result of these indwelling and flourishing graces, they shall be God-like [godly]." http://2mb.su/7594/ N.
• 

  TheJigsUp

  @ troubledfiancee

  the way i see it is this.

  it seems it doesnt matter just how much curcumstancial evidence there is for charles taze being a freemason or illuminati, unless people find a written statement from the hand of charles himself they are overall unwilling to entertain the notion.

  If the same people were on a jury for instance, deliberating on whether the suspect that took your family away from you was guilty or not.

  Even with all curcumstancial evidence pointing to the suspect, even plenty of well documented curcumstancial evidence. They would find

  the suspect not guilty because he and his comrades didn't confess.

  And since charles taze and his fellow.. whatever they may be.. arent fessing up.

  you can present all the well documented curcumstancial evidence and you'll just get shouted down eventually.

  If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, sounds like a duck...

  the simplest answer is most likely the correct one.

  I personally believe its a duck.
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  saltyoldlady

  To add my two bits here - the symbols first asked about looked all for the world to me like Knights Templar and I guess someone else saw that connection too. Knights of Malta isn't much better connection - maybe even worse. Yes it may be Russell had no connection with these "black" orders but to use some of their symbols shows then a total lack of knowledge about their history or evil backgrounds. It may well be he was totally ignorant - as ignorant in these areas as he was about many other subjects like Bible chronology and history - that being said I have enjoyed many an article in those original WT's from the 1800's - there was a freshness and openness of spirit missing in today's fare.

  And yes I know that the shepherd's crook, etc. are also associated with good things. Good things are often used by bad people to hide their deeds and real purposes.
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  tenyearsafter

  Great comments and observations everyone...thanks!

  I am leaning toward the armor being the "spiritual armor"...it certainly seems logical...as to the crown and cross, I am still torn regarding any connection to freemasonry. I think TD is right on with his "horse or cart" comment...maybe old CT just liked the look of the red cross in the crown!
• 

  Black Sheep

  Jesus Christ ....... he got nailed to a bleedin' cross and he's supposed to be a king

  An artist doesn't need a super dooper imagination to come up with a logo for da troops.
• 

  TD

  Would anybody associate the medieval knights templer with the Christian Scientists? Even today, they are more fond of the cross and crown than Russell was:

  

  The portate cross and crown is just not that unusual:

  Daughters of Isabella (Website artwork)

  

  St. Peter's Lutheran Church in Wisconsin (Detail from window)

  

  Christ The King Catholic Church in Illinois (Website artwork)

  All Saints Episcopal Church in Missouri (Website artwork)

  

  Cross and Crown Baptist Church in Florida: (Church signage and website artwork)

  

  Seventh Day Baptist Church in New York (Detail from kneeling cushion)

  

  Abiding Faith Lutheran Church in Tennessee (Detail from parament)

  

  Crown of Life Lutheran Church in Missouri (Website artwork)

  Elkhart Christian Church in Iowa (Website artwork)

  Saint John's Lutheran Church in Wisconsin (Detail from window)

  

  Immanuel Orthodox Presbytarian Church in Pennsylvania (Website artwork)

  

  Anglican Episcopal Church (Website artwork)

  Freedom Baptist Church in North Carolina (Website artwork)

  Zion Evangelical Lutheran Church in Wisconsin (Detail from window)

  

  Another Cross And Crown Lutheran Church: This one in North Carolina:
• 

  troubledfiancee

  Enlightening Posts. Like I said, would be great to see some kind of official study with chronology. At this point, it’s impossible to tell the cart from the horse w/out a history lesson. I poked around a bit more and still haven't found anything substantial. Most of my searching is turning up Russell's Gravestone & monument and a lot of WT info. It’s amazing how much searching for “cross and crown” leads you to Russell and WT – Mason connections. A lot of folks have latched on to these early WT symbols, there’s more of them too.

  -TF