Descended from animal? Explain language.

by StopTheTears 59 Replies latest jw friends

  • StopTheTears
    StopTheTears

    If, as evolutionists claim, all of mankind evolved from the SAME primitive life-source, then how did we end up with 7,000 different languages? Did one gorilla get angry at another gorilla and decide to start a new language? I'm intrigued to know.

    The Bible teaches that God created all the different languages at Babel.It is far more reasonable to accept the Biblical claim that God created all of mankind's different languages; than it is to believe that some space-dust somehow became life, and then evolved intelligence, and then ended up with many different languages. That makes no sense at all.

  • AnneB
    AnneB

    I like that tiny one first in line from the left. I think the gene for dancing came from him.

  • sooner7nc
    sooner7nc

    I think you're right Anne. That monkey is funky!

  • cofty
    cofty

    I am going to assume that this is a spoof of creationism - very good!

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Here's a thought. All languages share the same syntax (some are reversed). All babies have an innate ability to pick up language from those around them, and in the absence of an existing language, will make one of their own. So the development and the acquisition of language is instinctual. I get these ideas from The Language Instinct by Stephen Pinker.

    http://youtu.be/_JmA2ClUvUY

  • Reader1
    Reader1

    You need to study the theory of evolution if you wish to try do disprove it. From your explanation about, it is apparent that you lack an understanding of what is involved in evolution.

    Languages have evolved over time. We only need to see the change from Latin to French, Spanish and Italian to understand this. So the variety of languages is not due to angry gorillas, as you claimed, but due to the isolation of peoples who then, over time, develop new sounds. This is also an excellent analogy of the progress of evolution. A Latin speaker did not suddenly give birth to a Spanish speaking child, but rather the language changed gradually over time, generation after generation. The parents can always communicate with the children, but as the language changes, people adapt to new words or pronunciations.

    Similarly, we can see that species did the same thing over vast amounts of time. They slowly changed, even though there was very little difference between parents and offspring. This is borne out by the fossil record, genetics, among other scientific fields.

  • dgp
    dgp

    Languages evolve.

    http://www.economist.com/node/10601444

    Linguistic evolution

    Received pronunciation

    Languages and species evolve in surprisingly similar ways

    Jan 31st 2008 | from the print edition

      ONE of the unresolved—and rather bitter—disputes in evolutionary biology is between the creeps and the jerks. The creeps (so dubbed by the jerks) think that evolutionary change is gradual. The jerks (so dubbed by the creeps) think it happens in sudden jumps that are separated by long periods of stasis.

      Probably, both are true. Work done a couple of years ago by Mark Pagel of Reading University, in England, suggests that about a fifth of evolutionary change happens jerkily at around the time new species form. The rest creeps in gradually over the millennia.

      Species, however, are not the only things that evolve. Languages do too. And in the current edition of Science, Dr Pagel and his colleagues publish evidence that they do so in a way which looks intriguingly similar to what happens in species.

      Related topics

      There was already some historical evidence for this. The English of Geoffrey Chaucer (born in the 14th century), for example, is incomprehensible to modern laymen, whereas that of William Shakespeare (born in the 16th) is not only comprehensible but held by some to be a model. Dr Pagel, however, wanted to examine the question systematically and to include languages with no literary history in his analysis.

      To do so he looked at three well-studied parts of the linguistic family tree: the Bantu languages of Africa, the Indo-European group from Eurasia and the Austronesians of the Pacific. In all three cases it is pretty clear how the branches connect up, even if it is not always obvious when particular splits occurred.

      Dr Pagel did not, however, need to know that. He only needed to know the shape of the tree. That was because his hypothesis was that if linguistic evolution is jerky, the jerks will happen at the points where languages split—the equivalent of species splits in biological evolution. The way to test that is to track back along the branches leading from each existing language, and count the number of splits on each path before you get to the common ancestor of all.

      His hypothesis turned out to be correct. Languages are formed not, it seems, by a gradual drifting apart of two groups who no longer talk to each other, but by violent rupture. Around a third of the vocabulary differences between modern Bantu speakers arose this way, around a fifth of the differences between speakers of Indo-European languages, and around a tenth of the Austronesians. That compares with around a fifth for biological species.

      All this suggests that the formation of both languages and species is an active process. For species, adaptations to novel environments and the need to avoid crossbreeding with those on the other side of the split are both plausible hypotheses. For languages, the explanation may be a cultural rather than biological need to distinguish populations. As Noah Webster, the compiler of the first American dictionary, put it: “as an independent nation, our honor [sic] requires us to have a system of our own, in language as well as government.” In other words, if you don't speak proper, you ain't one of us.

      We ended up with so many languages (plus many others that have become extinct now) through the same mechanism that resulted in Latin morphing into Romance languages (Spanish, Portuguese, Galician, Catalonian, French, Provençal, the several languages of Italy, Romanian), Proto-Germanic into English, Frisian, Dutch, Afrikaans, German, Luxembourgish, Danish, Norwegian, Icelandic, Faroese, and Swedish, and the like.

      You'd be surprised that Nicaraguan deaf children developed the Nicaraguan sign language, an all new language, in the 1970-1980. This is the first time in history that scientists can actually study the birth of a language.

      http://www.economist.com/node/2441743?story_id=2441743

      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/07/2/l_072_04.html

      https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Nicaraguan_Sign_Language

      Nothing miraculous in the fact that we speak so many different languages. Just as it is not by force of miracle that languages are becoming extinct at an alarming rate:

      https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Extinct_language

      Ever heard about Papiamento?

      https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Papiamento

    • Knowsnothing
      Knowsnothing

      Stop the Tears, how did we go from the Latin language to Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian, Italian, French, etc.?

      Did God decide to confound a small portion of humanity yet again?

      God- Darnit! These humans are annoying me with their awsome buildings yet again! Look at that badass aqueduct! Or that impossible to build Pantheon, dedicated to other Gods besides me, no less! It's time to bust a move!

      Language aside, I think the real arguement you should be presenting is language itself. Language is a huge leap from mere grunts, for it is highly symbolic.

      A dog may whine, and let's others know he is in pain, or wants something. A dog may bark when it smells an intruder, or has found something that has sparked its interest.

      A human may speak words monotonously, yet convey many different meanings through the symbols we call words. Or, the arguement that only humans have the anatomy to speak and understand each other. (parrots aside)

    • dgp
      dgp

      What about Alex?

      http://www.economist.com/node/9828615?story_id=9828615

      Alex the African Grey

      Science's best known parrot died on September 6th, aged 31

      Sep 20th 2007 | from the print edition

      THE last time Irene Pepperberg saw Alex she said goodnight as usual. “You be good,” said Alex. “I love you.” “I love you, too.” “You'll be in tomorrow?” “Yes, I'll be in tomorrow.” But Alex (his name supposedly an acronym of Avian Learning Experiment) died in his cage that night, bringing to an end a life spent learning complex tasks that, it had been originally thought, only primates could master.

      In science as in most fields of endeavour, it is important to have the right tool for the job. Early studies of linguistic ability in apes concluded it was virtually non-existent. But researchers had made the elementary error of trying to teach their anthropoid subjects to speak. Chimpanzee vocal cords are simply not up to this—and it was not until someone had the idea of teaching chimps sign language that any progress was made.

      Even then, the researchers remained human-centric. Their assumption was that chimps might be able to understand and use human sign language because they are humanity's nearest living relatives. It took a brilliant insight to turn this human-centricity on its head and look at the capabilities of a species only distantly related to humanity, but which can, nevertheless, speak the words people speak: a parrot.

      Related topics

      The insight in question came to Dr Pepperberg, then a 28-year-old theoretical chemist, in 1977. To follow it up, she bought a one-year-old African Grey parrot at random from a pet shop. Thus began one of the best-known double acts in the field of animal-behaviour science.

      Dr Pepperberg and Alex last shared a common ancestor more than 300m years ago. But Alex, unlike any chimpanzee (with whom Dr Pepperberg's most recent common ancestor lived a mere 4m years ago), learned to speak words easily. The question was, was Alex merely parroting Dr Pepperberg? Or would that pejorative term have to be redefined? Do parrots actually understand what they are saying?

      Bird brained

      Dr Pepperberg's reason for suspecting that they might—and thus her second reason for picking a parrot—was that in the mid-1970s evolutionary explanations for behaviour were coming back into vogue. A British researcher called Nicholas Humphrey had proposed that intelligence evolves in response to the social environment rather than the natural one. The more complex the society an animal lives in, the more wits it needs to prosper.

      The reason why primates are intelligent, according to Dr Humphrey, is that they generally live in groups. And, just as group living promotes intelligence, so intelligence allows larger groups to function, providing a spur for the evolution of yet more intelligence. If Dr Humphrey is right, only social animals can be intelligent—and so far he has been borne out.

      Flocks of, say, starlings or herds of wildebeest do not count as real societies. They are just protective agglomerations in which individuals do not have complex social relations with each other. But parrots such as Alex live in societies in the wild, in the way that monkeys and apes do, and thus Dr Pepperberg reasoned, Alex might have evolved advanced cognitive abilities. Also like primates, parrots live long enough to make the time-consuming process of learning worthwhile. Combined with his ability to speak (or at least “vocalise”) words, Alex looked a promising experimental subject.

      And so it proved. Using a training technique now employed on children with learning difficulties, in which two adults handle and discuss an object, sometimes making deliberate mistakes, Dr Pepperberg and her collaborators at the University of Arizona began teaching Alex how to describe things, how to make his desires known and even how to ask questions.

      By the end, said Dr Pepperberg, Alex had the intelligence of a five-year-old child and had not reached his full potential. He had a vocabulary of 150 words. He knew the names of 50 objects and could, in addition, describe their colours, shapes and the materials they were made from. He could answer questions about objects' properties, even when he had not seen that particular combination of properties before. He could ask for things—and would reject a proffered item and ask again if it was not what he wanted. He understood, and could discuss, the concepts of “bigger”, “smaller”, “same” and “different”. And he could count up to six, including the number zero (and was grappling with the concept of “seven” when he died). He even knew when and how to apologise if he annoyed Dr Pepperberg or her collaborators.

      And the fact that there were a lot of collaborators, even strangers, involved in the project was crucial. Researchers in this area live in perpetual fear of the “Clever Hans” effect. This is named after a horse that seemed to count, but was actually reacting to unconscious cues from his trainer. Alex would talk to and perform for anyone, not just Dr Pepperberg.

      There are still a few researchers who think Alex's skills were the result of rote learning rather than abstract thought. Alex, though, convinced most in the field that birds as well as mammals can evolve complex and sophisticated cognition, and communicate the results to others. A shame, then, that he is now, in the words of Monty Python, an ex-parrot.

    • metatron
      metatron

      Well, :

      1) Apes can learn use sign language and even come up with new words, on their own, as when a gorilla called a watermelon a 'water fruit'.

      2) Even bees have a "language" to transmit where pollen is

      3) This month, a linguist study traced all languages back to Africa !!!!!! Not exactly Patriarchs and Hebrew, is it?

      metatron

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