How The WT's 144,000 Theology Hijacks Their Annual Memorial Meeting

by Room 215 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • blondie
    blondie

    The WTS gets around that by saying those people did not die for the "right" reasons.

    *** w52 1/15 p. 62 Questions From Readers ***

    According to the article "Hated for His Name" in the September 1, 1951, Watchtower, hundreds of thousands of Christians died in the "ten persecutions" starting in Nero’s time, 144,000 dying in Egypt alone during one of the persecutions. How can this be harmonized with the Scriptural limitation of 144,000 placed on the number being in Christ’s body, and which position was the only one open to Christians during those centuries?—J.A., Dominican Republic.The article did not class with any finality the individuals that died during these persecutions, but spoke of the results in a general way. Note that a key qualification was made in the case referred to in the question: "In the province of Egypt alone, 144,000 such professed Christians died by violence in the course of this persecution, in addition to another 700,000 who died as a result of fatigues encountered in banishment or under enforced public works." The victims are identified as "professed Christians", not Christians in fact.Many of those persons might have been caught in the wave of persecution, but may never have actually preached the truth or followed in Jesus’ footsteps, being only professed Christians. They knew the world they lived in was rotten and they were listening to the message of the Christians and willing to die for it even though not in line for the high calling in Christ Jesus. Many professed Christians today might be willing to die for their faith, but still not be Jesus’ footstep followers and meeting the Scriptural requirements for such.

    *** w72 7/1 pp. 415-416 Questions From Readers ***

    Large numbers of Christians are said to have been put to death during the Roman persecution in the first few centuries of the Common Era. How, then, is it possible for thousands in this century to have been called to become part of the body of Christ composed of only 144,000 persons?—U.S.A.There are historical indications that many Christians were bitterly persecuted, even killed, in the first few centuries. However, it should be remembered that, in itself, a martyr’s death did not give a person merit before Jehovah God nor did it guarantee membership in the heavenly kingdom. Many persons, even in recent times, have been willing to die for a cause, religious or otherwise. A person’s claiming to be a Christian and even dying for his belief does not in itself mean that he is an approved servant of Jehovah God. As the apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians: "If I give all my belongings to feed others, and if I hand over my body, that I may boast, but do not have love, I am not profited at all." (1 Cor. 13:3) It is not death, but faithfulness to the very death, that determines whether an individual will receive "the crown of life."—Rev. 2:10.

    Thus the fact that today there is still a remnant of the 144,000 on earth would show that down to this twentieth century fewer than 144,000 finished their earthly course in faithfulness.

    While some persons may be inclined to think that more persons must surely have been involved even as far back as the early centuries of the Common Era, actual proof to this effect is completely lacking. Today it is impossible even to establish how many persons were killed, much less the number of those who proved faithful to death. "We have practically but few facts to go upon," writes Frederick John Foakes-Jackson in the book HistoryofChristianityintheLightofModernKnowledge. He further states: "The testimony to the persecution by Nero is recorded by two Roman historians, Tacitus and Suetonius, both of whom were very young when it occurred, and wrote in mature life. There is no contemporary Christian document describing it, though it may be alluded to in the book of Revelation. . . . Tertullian at the end of the second century is our authority that Nero and Domitian, because they were the two worst emperors in the first centuries, persecuted the Christians." Early in the third century C.E., Origen (a Christian writer and teacher) observed: "There have been but a few now and again, easily counted, who have died for the Christian religion."

    Much that has been written about Christian martyrs is embellished by tradition and therefore unreliable. For example, the martyrdom of Polycarp of the second century C.E. is described in Fox’sBookofMartyrs as follows: "He was . . . bound to a stake, and the faggots with which he was surrounded set on fire, but when it became so hot that the soldiers were compelled to retire, he continued praying and singing praises to God for a long time. The flames raged with great violence, but still his body remained unconsumed, and shone like burnished gold. It is also said, that a grateful odour like that of myrrh, arose from the fire, which so much astonished the spectators, that many of them were by that means converted to Christianity. His executioners finding it impossible to put him to death by fire, thrust a spear into his side, from which the blood flowed in such a quantity, as to extinguish the flame. His body was then consumed to ashes, by order of the proconsul lest his followers should make it an object of adoration."

    Whatever the source of Fox’s information, manifestly little of this account is truly historical. Nevertheless, if the allusion to the adoration of the remains of Polycarp is to be viewed as indicating the existence of relic worship among professed Christians of the second century C.E., this would be additional evidence that many at that time were not faithful worshipers of Jehovah God. Christians were under command to "worship God," not relics. (Rev. 19:10) In fact, idolaters are among those specifically named in the Scriptures as unfit to inherit the Kingdom.—1 Cor. 6:9, 10.

  • MrFreeze
    MrFreeze

    Haven't you people read that statement by Jesus where he said "Keep doing this in remembrance of me. That is unless you are not of the 144,000 anointed in which case you must be a respectful observer."

  • Perry
    Perry

    John 1: 12 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    It really is a simple as that ..... unless a person gets captured and hauled off to the theological work camps of the Watchtower. With the works basis, you could ALWAYS make the argument that ANYONE wasn't working enough AND WASN'T A REAL CHRISTIAN FOR WHATEVER END YOU PURPOSE.

  • Ding
    Ding

    Blondie,

    I deliberately avoided citing secular or "Christendom" sources like Foxe's Book of Martyrs.

    All I did was quote the scriptures, which the WTS says it accepts as infallible and inspired.

    The Bible says God was adding daily those who were being saved, not that He was adding daily those who were counterfeits and apostates.

  • Room 215
    Room 215

    Following Ding's reasoning above: Assume a very conservative annual growth rate for primitive Christianity, given the facts he presents: 3,000? 5,000?

    Consider that the epoch of "pure, unadulterated Christianity" spanned the lifetime of Jesus and his apostles. In the case of Paul, we can estimate 32 years (33 CE through 65 CE), for a total of 96,000 Crhistians at 3,000 per year, 160,000 at 5,000 per year. If one prefers to lengthen that epoch to include the lifespan of John, or until 98 CE (or 65 years), then these numbers grow to 195,000 and 325,000, respectively.

  • blondie
    blondie

    bing, remember I'm only reporting how the WTS tries to get around this, I'm not supporting it.

    Blondie

    Remember this motto: Reporting is not supporting

    Rodney Stark is a better source.

    As it is seen in the Acts of the Apostles the first Christians led by St. Paul naturally went to the Jewish communities in the big urban centers. These communities, accustomed to receiving teachers from Jerusalem, were not so easily scandalized by the Roman oppression that had been responsible, at least in part, for the crucifixion of Jesus. Archaeological evidence shows that the early Christian Churches outside of Palestine were concentrated in the Jewish sections of the cities. But Stark does not stop there. He submits that by the year 250, when there were approximately one million Christians (according to his estimate of a 40 % annual growth rate) the great majority could have been convert Jews, as many as 1 out 5 of the Jews in the Diaspora. One of the more difficult problems facing the Catholic episcopate well into the fifth century may have been persuading newly converted Jews to stop frequenting of Jewish synagogues and to abandon Jewish customs.

    http://www.catholicity.com/mccloskey/riseofchristianity.html

  • cyberjesus
    cyberjesus

    I chuckled after reading this. Its the truth, why bother attending if it has nothing to do with me?

    so are you going?

  • designs
    designs

    Every Church does it different! With some you get served by the Priest, others you walk up to a Table, others pass the Welch's Grape juice. Don't get your knickers in a twist because of how the JWs will do it in a couple weeks unless you think You alone have it all perfected.

  • simon17
    simon17

    The idea that there have not been 144,000 faithful christians in history has got to be the most logical absurd doctrine of the Witnesses because its not even something like Noah's Flood where you might have to depend on science (trusthworthy though it may be) to show how ridiculous it is.

    Not 144,000 true christians before the 20th century. How can anyone THINK about that and justify it in their mind. And then to go ahead and say "oh well there may have been chrisitans who THOUGHT they were sincere but they actually had some things wrong." Well in that case, there are ZERO true christians in history. Every member of the JW 144,000 who died earlier, died believing false doctrines that have been changed. How much more wrong about a million things could a JW annointed who died in 1920 be???? THey shouldn't count either.

    Actually thats a good out for the FDS. All the annointed who died believing old light aren't qualified. We need 144,000 to die faithful with the current lite. That could go on forever...

  • thetrueone
    thetrueone

    All of this was swept aside in favor of convincing those in attendance that they had no business in partaking of the emblematic bread and wine.

    Quite typical for a memorial talk.

    The reason the WTS. has been lamenting on this one point is by their own expressed doctrine the number of the anointed is supposedly to

    be decreasing in step with their pronouncement that mankind is now living in the last days. Unfortunate for the WTS. the number is increasing

    which is throwing a whole ca-bosh into their end time doctrine. The memorial event is still used a propaganda platform to invite people,

    give them a little love bombing and try to instigate a study. There is much corruption down at the Kingdom Hall to be sure.

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