Could recently discovered codices prove once and for all that Jesus died on a cross?

by truthseeker 25 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  truthseeker

  This find, if genuine, is SIGNIFICANT.

  http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110330/ts_yblog_thelookout/could-lead-codices-prove-the-major-discovery-of-christian-history

  How would the Watchtower react if evidence suggests that Jesus died on a cross? This would mean they lied to millions of their members saying that the instrument of Jesus' execution was nothing more than a stake, an upright pole.

  

  Meanwhile, biblical scholars who have examined the codices point to significant textual evidence suggesting their early Christian origin. Philip Davies, emeritus professor of Old Testament Studies at Sheffield University, told Pigott he was "dumbstruck" at the sight of plates representing a picture map of ancient Jerusalem. "There is a cross in the foreground, and behind it is what has to be the tomb [of Jesus], a small building with an opening, and behind that the walls of the city," Davies explained. "There are walls depicted on other pages of these books, too, and they almost certainly refer to Jerusalem."
• 

  EntirelyPossible

  outside of the microcosm of JW's that make a big deal out of this, no one else cares. they don't think there is anything to prove, except that maybe jesus actually existed.
• 

  TTWSYF

  Very interesting. Possible proof that the WTS may have to address. I can see it now.......If it is authentic then the WTS will say 'see? The apostasy has started even earlier then we first thought. This is, er, um...new light!'

  In other words, just another chance to 'lie for the TRUTH tm .'

  WTS publications show Jesus 'on an upright stake because STAUROS in Classical Greek mearly means an upright stake or pale.' Reasoning from Scriptures 1985 pgs89-93

  The problem is that Classical Greek hadn't been spoken in [literally] centuries before Christ's time. The Greek being spoken [and recorded] was Koine Greek [a Hellenistic dialect]

  In Koine Greek [the Greek of the New Testament] STAUROS means [1] an upright stake with q crossbeam above it. [2] two intersecting beams of equal length, or [3] a vertical pointed stake. according to Gerhard Kittel and Gerhard Friedrich, eds 'Theological Dictionary of the New Testament' Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1971, 7;572.

  respectfully,

  dc
• 

  Quendi

  Much rests on this discovery if it is authenticated, and not just about whether Jesus died on a cross. Another point has to do with the dating of the book of Revelation, for there is some reference to its contents in these codices. If that is confirmed, then not just the WTS, but most of Christendom will have to accept the dating of Revelation back to prior to Jerusalem's destruction in A.D. 70. That is what I and many others believe, and a strong case is made for this in the book Before Jerusalem Fell: Dating the Book of Revelation by Kenneth Gentry. But while I agree with those who are taking a "go slow" approach, I am nevertheless excited. Time will tell if this find is authentic and the impact it will have on religion.

  Quendi
• 

  Terry

  Part of the success (such as it is) of Russellites into Jehovah's Witnesses was the BRANDING process.

  What made Rutherford's new religion a better BRAND NAME and product than the other brands (denominations) on the market?

  Separating by difference, Rutherford created a contrast/compare model for JW's to conform to.

  How is Coke different from Pepsi? Take the Pepsi challenge and taste for yourself!

  Coke and Pepsi look alike in a glass with ice, don't they? The marketing and sales of those soft drinks has to

  create SIGNFICANT (seeming) DIFFERENCES in the mind of the public.

  Rutherford had to separate Jehovah's Witnesses from Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, Adventists and Bible Students who followed Russell

  but who refused to go along with him.

  Rutherford acheived his distinctive difference by a batshit-crazy effort to make JW's OPPOSITE of every existing christian denomination.

  Black became white. Day became night. Up became down.

  All these changes were wrought by a completely fabricated system of Theology largely dreamed up by the intellect of Fred Franz and the

  diabolical mindset of Rutherford himself along with a cadre of non-conformist writers and thinkers at Bethel.

  If you had a weird belief or idea you could take it to Rutherford and chances are it would be published!

  The Doctrine of the Torture Stake is flummery and poppycock AND always has been.

  jESUS, you will recall, for some number of years, among JW's HAD NO BEARD. This was "proved" by their theology too!

  That is, until it fell by the wayside just like this one will.

  The Blood Doctrine has slowly wasted away with niggling exceptions like a melting ice cube.

  The Generations Doctrine has evaporated under the heat of Apostate complaint.

  Where reality intrudes Watchtower theology skulks away into the darkness from which it emerged.
• 

  james_woods

  Also, along with what Terry says (that they teach this just to be different) - the Watchtower did not originate by themselves this torture stake idea. Remember - "The two Babylons" had it before they did. Russell, as far as I know, never objected to the cross right up to his death. For sure, the cross appears on his graveside monument.

  I always thought that the witness view on this would have been so much more reasonable if they had just said (like most modern historians) that the exact form of the cross was not exactly known.

  But NOOO - lurking underneath the JW hatred of the cross is the Alexander Hislop claim that the cross somehow represents the trinity - and is therefore a Babylonian pagan symbol.

  Thus, it will be interesting - if these tablets can be reasonably verified, that the historical cross did not have three exposed points. I suppose, though, that the JWs will just say that it forms a "T" and that this represents the Babylonian god Tammuz. Even though there was no Latin "T" in Babylon antiquity.

  I find myself hoping that this discovery can be verified and decoded.
• 

  Honesty

  The slave has a ready answer if those lead plates prove to authentic period pieces from the first century SEEE EEEE....

  Jesus the archangel was still in the grave when the apostasy began.
• 

  sir82

  Likely WT response:

  "The apostasy from true Christianity evidently began much earler than we thought. The pagan influence of cross worship is evident on a codex found dating from the mid-first century..."

  You guys underestimate how slick they are. They have more than a century of experience spinning the facts to suit their needs. You think this will stop them?
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  james_woods

  Either that, Sir82 - or, they could simply ignore this discovery and never say a word about it.

  If it is not in the Watchtower, most of their zombies will never hear a word about it for a long, long time.

  When enough questions dribble in, like they did on the UN NGO scandal, they can simply deny that it ever happened - or say that the plates cannot be authenticated.
• 

  miseryloveselders

  Either that, Sir82 - or, they could simply ignore this discovery and never say a word about it.

  If it is not in the Watchtower, most of their zombies will never hear a word about it for a long, long time.

  When enough questions dribble in, like they did on the UN NGO scandal, they can simply deny that it ever happened - or say that the plates cannot be authenticated.

  So very very true. Anything information not produced by the WT, is from Satan.