Where is that "Hidden HOOK"?

by Terry 20 Replies latest social current

  • Terry
    Terry

    A number of years ago I started doing something I had never done before.

    I started questioning the basic premise of things which cause arguments.

    Why?

    Long running controversy usually contains a hidden premise BOTH sides buy into without knowing it.

    By backing up one whole step and questioning the BASIS for the hidden premise the problem quickly goes away.

    Like a fish looking at a worm wriggling in the water. It looks yummy. The fish bites the worm and---suddenly---YANK!

    The fish is gutted, panfried, eaten and pooped out the end of some fisherman who had baited a HIDDEN HOOK.

    This has happened to all of us here reading these Discussion topics.

    We were pooped out the back end of a Kingdom hall wondering what the hell happened to us.

    We started off our journey from pious believer in the bible to a steaming pile of Apostate Crap in an amazing journey of dizzying confusion.

    Where was the HIDDEN HOOK?

    It was when we accepted the Bible as the actual words of God, the actual words of Jesus, the actual factual accounts of Apostles and an accurate historical record of real events in mankind's history.

    We had been conditioned to automatically accept that as a GIVEN and we did.

    We saw wriggling in the water a yummy morsel of The Truth, beautifully explained FROM THE BIBLE and we chomped down on it.

    Perhaps we need to back up next time.

    Sniff that bible a bit longer. Nudge it with your nose before you bite.

    Maybe the Bible itself is the hook that is hidden.

    Maybe it contains man's words and not God's.

    Maybe it was assembled by men with men's intentions and men's interpretations.

    Maybe it was copied by ernest, well-intentioned people just trying to do the right thing.

    Maybe the translators kept "helping" by changing things.

    Maybe each generation of copyists, redactors, translators THEMSELVES simply accepted what the PREVIOUS men had done as FACT.

    I'm just saying.....none of us would spend five minutes actually considering that a man saved all the animals in a big wooden box IF IT WEREN'T FOR ACCEPTING the hidden hook: the Bible.

    Imagine how many arguments simply vanish instantly if the Bible is just an assembly of man's myths, stories, ideas, assertions MIXED IN with holy writings, folk history, hallucinations, philosophy and constant interpetations.

    1.We don't have a chain of custody for scripture. Evidence must have chain of custody. Why? To prevent TAMPERING.

    No Provenance? Trying selling a painting as "original" without a provenance. How much more necessary selling Truth.

    2.We don't have custody of ORIGINAL writings. Nothing exists that is original pertaining to the Bible. NOTHING.

    We don't even have first generation copies. None. We begin to see scraps about the size of a postage stamp. Then, copies of copies.

    By the time we get to actual whole pages we are far removed from Chain-of-Custody provenance or Originals.

    3.Men always have a strong agenda to PROVE THEIR OPINION RIGHT. How would scripture escape such human nature? Using a Holy Book to persuade people to DO WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO DO is a powerful motive.

    It would not be dishonesty to interpret writings in a way that matches exactly YOUR OWN opinion. Just look at the New World Translation as an example. Amazing how many previously translated words and phrases CHANGED TO MATCH JW belief system, isn't it?

    How would any of the thousands and thousands of such translations have escaped similar AMAZING CHANGES in interpretation?

    4.There is no AUTHORITY without the BIBLE in Christianity unless you pretend God speaks directly to you.

    Every RELIGIOUS LEADER looks to the Bible to prove his own beliefs and will convince YOU if you accept the Bible and his interpretation.

    Go to any religious bookstore. How many hundreds and hundreds of commentaries and theology books contain OPINIONS and INTERPRETATIONS from the Bible? How many AGREE with each other?

    This is only possible BECAUSE the Bible is a fragile and malleable HIDDEN HOOK for men to use to REEL PEOPLE IN who believe in it.

    None of us has escaped being yanked out of the water, panfried, eaten and pooped.

    We are a steaming pile of Apostate crap in the opinion of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

    How did we get here?

    WE CHOMPED DOWN on the Hidden Hook.

    When will you learn to examine the hook itself before biting????

    Have you since been yanked out of the water YET AGAIN?

  • elderelite
    elderelite

    Terry, i am always reluctant to get involved in athist vs believer discussions... But you really do hit.. The only reason the bible has power is people claim its inspired... Its why musliums believe in the koran etc etc... But its belief without prof... Its habit..

  • Terry
    Terry

    I'm not Atheist.

    This topic should really have nothing to do with the existence of God.

    The Bible being what it IS or what it ISN'T has nothing to do with God.

    Stop and think about it.

    Incrementally.

    If the Koran is false does this prove God does not exist?

    No.

    Why then, should the bible being uninspired---or tampered with---or interpreted into nonsense PROVE ANYTHING AT ALL about the existence of God?

    A number of years ago Hitler's Diaries were found to be a fake. Did this prove there was no such thing as Hitler?

    Our consideration of God and goodness has been TIED DOWN and LIMITED to what the bible supposedly "says".

    We have never been free of that constraint.

    Suddenly allowing ourselves to consider there might be more to this universe than a battle between invisible persons could be

    quite astonishly HEALTHY.

    I'm talking about MENTAL HEALTH.

    Gods and demons might not run this world.

    It might be natural forces and human beings after all.....

  • watson
    watson

    Us "born ins" got caught up in the dragnet.

  • wobble
    wobble

    Exactly Terry, The Bible only exists in the form we have today, because Pope Damasus called a Synod in 382C.E, invited the priest Jerome along, (who gave us the Vulgate) and sort of fixed the Canon of the N.T (though arguments went on till the Counci lof Trent and still do )

    It is clearly the work of men, writing on their view of god etc, it is not inerrant and clearly not inspired, so it is obviously not an authority of any sort on what a person should believe, of how he should worship.

    As Juan-Miguel pointed out to me the other day,on another thread, the bible only came in to existence for the benefit of believers, the Christians were around for centuries by the time it was cobbled together, they did not believe because of a book.

    There are a good number of believers who recognise this, these intelligent, well educated people believe, but their faith is based on something other than a book.

    Freeing yourself from the restraints of a groundless faith in a translation of copies of copies of redacted works allows one to consider all possibilities, including that there is no Supreme Being.

  • InterestedOne
    InterestedOne
    I'm talking about MENTAL HEALTH.

    Amen.

  • aSphereisnotaCircle
    aSphereisnotaCircle

    the bible only came in to existence for the benefit of believers, the Christians were around for centuries by the time it was cobbled together, they did not believe because of a book.

    Excellent point!

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    SweetBabyCheezits

    At what point in life are we more naive than when we were children? How many stories did you believe as a child and have had to reassess as an adult?

    If a person can be intellectually honest enough to admit that he or she was influenced to accept the Bible as a child, that should tell him or her how far back to start in their questioning.

  • clarity
    clarity

    Terry,

    You're really cooking today I must say! Not that I don't 'see' reason in most of your posts but...............................................this takes the cake! Thank you.

    "1.We don't have a chain of custody for scripture. Evidence must have chain of custody. Why? To prevent TAMPERING.

    No Provenance? Trying selling a painting as "original" without a provenance. How much more necessary selling Truth.

    2.We don't have custody of ORIGINAL writings. Nothing exists that is original pertaining to the Bible. NOTHING"

    >

    Ask a Police Officer in drug enforcement about that, - no chain of custody of the drugs - no prosecution!

    clarity

  • Terry
    Terry

    I've been sitting here thinking about this topic and trying to free up my thoughts.

    One thing really caught my attention. A comment early in the discussion about Atheists.

    It had not even crossed my mind that there is a BUNDLING effect that prevents honest consideration of the bible as less than inspired.

    IT IS CONNECTED (or bundled) in people's subconscious with REJECTING the existence of God!!

    Wow!

    Allowing God to break free from this dusty, tampered, interpreted book may be the single greatest act of pure worship possible!

    But--it scares people.

    Really threatens a sense of deep rooted security.

    DARE to think!

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