SEX, LIES, DEMONS, & APOSTASY

by You Know 57 Replies latest social relationships

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  KissAFish

  This simple.. God +supreme being.. he made humans..( or used evolution.to, whatever your belief....) the essential factor in knowing God, is to read the bible see the story of life..and lets face it..Hardly any 2 people interpret it the same...The Bible is a story an expression of gods love and a statement of God evolving to letting humans use their god given free will to make choices decisions and live with them....And handing us the earth and each other as a means to experience all.. But this of course is only my interpretation and how I CHOOSE to see it..in a gentle non denominational way.. the way God intended.. Religion and all the argumeants and pulling apart and sectarianism and cultism is purely mans take on God...he gave us choice and we as a race and individual affect our own futures..

  "What man does not understand, he fears; and what he fears, he tends to destroy. "
  William Butler Yeats
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  MrMoe

  BLAH BLAH BLAH -- and I did not read one single ounce of that dribble...
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  DanielHaase

  LOL mrmoe! Couldn't have said it better myself... That post was interesting, until it started making me feel like I was back in Plilosophy 101 where the southern baptist got into with the agnostic jew...
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  Utopian Reformist

  Dear AChristian:

  You answered:
  ______________________________________________________________________

  UR,
  I'm not going to get into a silly debate with you about what a perfectly righteous God could or could not do. A "Could God create a rock so big that he could not move it?" type of debate.

  Early on I said that God wanted to create people whom He could have a loving relationship with. But since true love can be neither forced nor programmed, in order to have loving relationships with us, God had to create us as free people. Free to choose to love God and His ways or to not love God and His ways. In other words, free to do both right and wong, free to do both good and evil.

  I believe that statement is a very reasonable one, and that only someone who enjoys arguing for the sake of arguing would contest it.
  ______________________________________________________________________

  I am NOT trying to offend you or attack you in a personal manner. I am ONLY attempting to understand the "pattern" and "method" to the logic or reasoning you are utilizing. Again, you mention that "GOD" HAD to create us as free people in order to freely choose to love him, obey him, and understand right and wrong. And again, this continues proving that GOD is therefore NOT perfect in his justice and love. "GOD" knowingly issued defective products, despite advanced manufacturing techniques. This makes "GOD" liable to the consumers, or in this particular case, victims under the "grandfather" clause of product liability. Do you understand the logic?

  The further your responses proceed, the easier it becomes to measure the overall "soundness/reasonableness/logic" as a theme. Unfortunately, I must conceed that any objective examination of your arguments and the arguments of Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists, Shintoists, Muslims ALL appear to contain the same concurrent themes throughout the teachings, doctrines and literature. The all resemble fairy tales, myths, legends, fear of supernatural and superstition.

  It is not a case of wanton debate and antagonism. PLEASE do not escalate in that direction. Proverbs 27:17 states that "by iron, iron itself is sharpened, and so one man's face sharpens anothers".
• 

  Abaddon

  aChristian;

  You discard something as;

  "Again all Watchtower/Fundy theology, not biblical theology".

  I respond

  "Be careful man; elitist thinking and absolute rightness are the perogatives of the cultist."

  You say in reply;

  "Ab, I could discuss your comments and questions more with you. But since you have already digressed from discussing the issues to making attacks on my personality, I see no point in doing so. It appears to me you just want to argue. I hope I am wrong."

  I gave my opinion of the thinking behind your opinion. If you are not thinking in a cultic way, demonstrate this. I think that's a better way to show I am wrong than withdrawing from the discussion without addressing the issues I've raised.

  Essentially, you think you are right, but can not prove it. I think I am right, sure. But I can prove most of my assertions other than 'god does not exist', which, as we know, is unprovable. I believe in reality; things that people can reach a concensus over as a result of scientific methodology.

  You believe in a revealed truth, do you not? You believe in what you feel to be true.

  Truth and reality are two different things aChristian. You have your truth. JW's have theirs. Papuan animists have theirs. You can no more prove your truth than they. Yet you insist you are right. So do they, I am sure. Your failure to realise the contradiction in this is a sure sign of a cultic mindset.

  To fail to accept that in the larger reality one cannot claim to have the truth, one can only say you believe what you believe.

  This in itself is a very pertinant arguement regarding the probability of god.

  How could god not prove his existence if this is the only way for his followers to be sure that their truth coincides with reality?

  People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...
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  aChristian

  Ab,

  I'm sure you know my response to such comments.

  When you say that Christians cannot prove that God exists, what you mean is that Christians cannot prove to everyone that God exists. That is certainly true. But why is it true? The Bible indicates that God has chosen to provide enough evidence of His existence to instill faith in all who are willing to believe in Him. The Bible also indicates that God has intentionally not provided us with so much evidence of His existence that even those who do not wish to believe in Him would now be compelled to do so. For the Bible tells us God has chosen to save that time for Judgment Day. It tells us that at that time "every knee will bow." Then everyone who previously refused to believe in God, despite all of the evidence He gave them of His existence, will be condemned for their great pride and stubbornness.
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  Abaddon

  aChristian; you're a nice chap, but we really have reached the end of this topic.

  Time and again you refuse to address issues; this time you give a nice little apologistic reason for the lack of proof, when that wasn't even what I was driving at.

  You ignore the point made about other people of other religions doing exactly what you do.

  Are they right too? I don't think you believe that.

  So you are saying (correct me if I am wrong) that YOU are right and EVERYONE else is wrong. Your apologetic explaination for the lack of proof of god does not answer the problem this exposes.

  You think your beliefs are right, and can quote chapter and verse and develop a seemingly consistant arguement within that. You may claim some subjective proof of this too.

  Throw a rock out your window with your eyes closed, and you will likely hit someone who believes something different, but who can also quote chapter and verse and develop a seemingly consistant arguement within that... even if it's from a different Holy Book... and again, they may also claim some subjective proof too.

  How can you say YOU are right, when by the same methodology other people claim the same?

  This is why your beliefs have a cultic tinge to them. They are illogical and demonstrably so, not in themselves, but in your insistance opon absolute rightness, when you have no greater claim to this than the Wiccan next door.

  Until you actually think about this, and address the issue, you are showing yet another cultic trait; cognitive dissonance. You are confronted with something you cannot argue with (or else you would have done it) that conflicts with your beliefs. You have a great investment in your beliefs. So you ignore the things you can't explain.

  I hope you realise, in my own way, I am saying this out of concern for you. You might not like it, you might not agree with it, but I'm not having a go at you, I'm commenting on your behaviour, and wondering why you still don't address the issues I raise.

  All the best; without being rude, simply re-stating what you've said will not get a responce. I want to see your reaction to the issue I've raised before it's worthwhile continuing this discussion.

  If you don't want to go there, I wish you as well as I do on the assumption that you will want to go there; this isn't personal, okay?

  People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...
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  aChristian

  Ab,

  You too are a nice chap, but I agree with you that we really have reached the end of this topic.

  You wrote: So you are saying (correct me if I am wrong) that YOU are right and EVERYONE else is wrong.

  Yes, that is what I am saying. Christianity is right and all other religions are wrong. That is also what Jesus Christ said. "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)

  I have not ignored the point you made about other people of other religions claiming that their beliefs are the only correct ones. I have addressed it before in other discussions with you. In those discussions I have told you that I have studied all major belief systems and have found that only the belief system that is described in the Bible is supported by enough subjective evidence for me to believe that it truly originates from the God who created our universe. I have discussed some of this evidence with you, evidence which I feel is sufficiently strong to impress anyone who is truly willing to believe in God. However, you have not been impressed. So, as you say, we have little left to discuss. For as I said earlier, the Bible indicates that God provides enough evidence of His existence to instill faith in all who are willing to believe in Him. And it indicates that God has intentionally not provided us with so much evidence of His existence that even those who do not wish to believe in Him would now be compelled to do so.

  It seems to me that you are now requiring more evidence of God's existence than He is now willing to provide. I hope I am wrong. If I am right, I hope your heart softens toward God in the future.