Role Play among the Dubs

by Duncan 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • Duncan
    Duncan

    Dear all,

    This is my 100th post, and I decided to repost something I originally did as a post on H2O a couple of years ago. It was a reply to somebody, and buried miles-deep in the thread, so hopefully it won’t have been read by too many already. Anyway…

    ROLE PLAY among the Dubs

    I think that this is actually quite an under-researched/commentated-upon area in the whole JayDub psychology: the importance of Role-Play.

    I'm quite convinced that the vast majority of normal witnesses (not the nutcase fanatics, I'm talking about the average Rank & file decent people), these people actually KNOW, on one level of their intelligence, that the whole thing is a deception, but are terrified of that knowledge, hide it to/from themselves, and kind of play along in well-worn patterns of behaviour that make them feel more comfortable.

    They say things to each other almost in a ritualistic way:

    · about how "upbuilding" the recent assembly was,
    · about how marvellous the latest magazines are,
    · about what “joy” they get from field service

    …and so on. All the time knowing - but denying to themselves - that these things aren't actually literally true. It is all role play.

    As an example of what I’m talking about, I actually heard my mother say to another JW sister, Rosemary, recently (I was in the house, and she thought I was out of earshot; they were talking about me)

    "Oh, Duncan. Yes, he fell away years ago. Of course - HE KNOWS IT'S THE TRUTH, but he’s so tied up with the world now, that he just won't do anything about it"

    Now I KNOW that she can't actually believe this, I have been out for 20 years, and have had, over that time many, many conversations with her about "the Truth" and what's wrong with it. She knows what I am about. She KNOWS that I don’t – not for a minute – “know it’s the truth.”

    Yet here she was, saying this. Why?

    My take on it is this: that, for that moment, when she was in that role-play with Rosemary, she actually believed it, just for that moment. The comforting role-play was sufficient to blank-out her actual conscious knowledge of the situation. It was important that she was with a friend when she said it, she would never have uttered any such thing if she had known I was listening, and I’m pretty sure she didn’t say it simply to score points with Rosemary. It was all an elaborate, behaviour-reinforcing, belief-strengthening role-play.

    I suppose I was surprised for a moment but, then again, only for a moment, because I full-well remember saying exactly that kind of thing about the fallen-by-the-wayside exJW's I knew when I was in and faithful. It is just the thing that you say in that situation. ( You can hardly say to the other witness "oh, Duncan, yes - he saw through the whole thing years ago and got out!" You simply have to take the he-knows-it's-the-truth line.)

    It's all role play, like so much else they do. All the door-knocking, public speaking, making a spectacle of yourself at work because you take some nutty "stand" over birthdays, Christmas, goodness knows what else - the whole Witness life is one long extended role-play. All designed to shore up the witness way of life and belief. And it’s completely automatic. It kicks in when you try to talk to them about why you left – they automatically go into the defending-the-Truth role.

    That’s why it’s so hard getting them out, I guess. How can you find a way to say to them – “look, stop this play-acting and just be yourself and listen for yourself for a moment!” It’s like they have the perfect defence.

    I guess you have to wait until they’re ready .

    Duncan.

  • LDH
    LDH

    The Role Play is so good, Duncan, that often times they don't even listen to what you're saying because they're trying to remember what catch-phrase comes next!

    Sis. 1: Are you going in Field Service tomorrow?

    Sis 2: No my family has no food, our cupboards are bare and the small children are starving!

    Sis 1: My magazines are really stockpiling! I'm glad tomorrow is 'Magazine Day.'

    See?

    Lisa

  • lauralisa
    lauralisa

    Hi Duncan,

    What comes immediately to mind for me is the following:

    As a still-enmeshed dub, dependent upon the few conditional relationships I managed to acquire with some of the sisters in the congregation, I was always intriqued with the 1975 thing.

    I was not "encouraged" to even ponder over the issue. It was taboo. Power Pioneer sisters, during a typical day in FS driving around aimlessly, during their aimless gossip and analysis of all other people and their children and their relatives and anyone else, would sometimes emphasize an particular individual's "spiritual weaknesses" by recalling their behavior during "1975".

    I was newly ensnared, not afraid of looking at "stumbling blocks" straight in the eye; in fact, I felt that as in proper scientific approach one should accept challenge to accepted "truths" and see how they held up.

    When I inquired about just exactly transpired during "1975", I was given loving, motherly advice, with lowered voice tones and through narrowed eyelids and a warning grimace, that I was much better off not knowing about it. Of course, that just made my curiosity level blast off even higher.

    The salient memory, relative to your post, is that there was a collective agreement that to talk about "1975" was tantamount to talking about beastiality or necrophilia or something. You just didn't "go there". That was the rule.

    Now I know better.

    Thank you for an interesting post.

    lauralisa

  • herbert
    herbert

    Duncan,

    So just how far can a fully laden swallow fly ?

    H.

    Duncan? Fell away years ago! Oh, I knoooow - said in a Mrs Basil accent - by the way, oh I see, three doctors!

    You did and have fans at H2O......

  • Marilyn
    Marilyn

    Duncan, I remember, I remember. I replied to it on H20 and I loved it then and I love now. It's soooooooooooooooooooooooooo true.

    :::::::::I'm quite convinced that the vast majority of normal witnesses (not the nutcase fanatics, I'm talking about the average Rank & file decent people), these people actually KNOW, on one level of their intelligence, that the whole thing is a deception, but are terrified of that knowledge

    ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've said it here in the last few days. Coz think about this; All these great, witty, perceptive people here, were all spouting that crap for years - and something woke us up. After we came to, we admitted hating meetings and service and insincere witlesses and pretty well the whole thing. All but a handful really hated their lives at dubs.

    I've also thought that my brother brought about a Judicial Hearing against us coz he was so mad that we could walk away and he couldn't. I'm convinced we p'd him off big time, being able to walk.

    Why not forward this piece to Freeminds. It's right on!!!!

    Marilyn

  • freeman
    freeman

    Duncan,
    Good points. Along those lines I find the rank and file witnesses theology to be extremely thin, as if they are indeed just playing a role. If you ask them questions from a pool of possible subjects they have rehearsed, they can provide answers to these questions that sound logical to the average man on the street. They can even back these answers up by what amounts to jumping from verse-to-verse using passages often out of context. I call this technique Biblical hopscotch, (not sure who coined the phrase, but I like it).

    If you ever ask them something that is not from the pool of questions that they have answers to, or force them to stay on subject long enough and keep asking for in depth answers, they are in trouble. Very few will stand toe-to-toe with you because as you said, they are playing a role. Just for fun, try and get anyone of them to explain the current blood policy in Biblical terms, not a one among them can explain why fractions are OK and whole blood is not. Its kind of fun (in a sadistic way) watching them squirm as they fumble looking for a pre-made answer. Come to think of it, not only are the rank and file without depth, so are the leaders too. I made my wife’s PO squirm over the blood policy too. Poor guy.

    Freeman

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman
    So just how far can a fully laden swallow fly ?

    Would that be an African swallow or a European swallow?

    Tom
    "The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan

  • Duncan
    Duncan

    LDH,

    they don't even listen to what you're saying because they're trying to remember what catch-phrase comes next!
    isn't THAT the truth?

    I have CERTAINLY had whole conversations with other Witnesses (not close, real friends - I mean others in the cong. with whom you have to keep up the image, elders and older sisters and stuff) that have been nothing but cut-and-paste comments said a million times before.

    The "next catch-phrase" is it, exactly.

    Lauralisa,

    I myself have no personal experience of the post-75-rationalisation doublethink of the Witnesses (I was gone after about 78/79), but I can just imagine how it went. Thanks for an interesting post.

    H - the Monty python reference I caught, but 3 doctors? Give me a clue, here.

    Marylin - Hi again! That's right, it was you.

    All these great, witty, perceptive people here, were all spouting that crap for years
    Actually, I'm still a pretty dab hand at spouting crap! I had to deliver a stirring address to the assembled troops at our Company Kick-off 2002 last week - still - at least I'm getting paid for it, these days.

    Regards to all

    Duncan.

  • Marilyn
    Marilyn

    Duncan, You sound like my husband. He loves an audience. Not sure how much the Ministry School helped him though. I imagine the university education did more!

    btw it wasn't Monty python it was Fawlty towers Herbert was referring to. And it was "two doctors"! Remember the Shrink episode?

    I'm still excited by reading your post again. You said: """That’s why it’s so hard getting them out, I guess. How can you find a way to say to them – “look, stop this play-acting and just be yourself and listen for yourself for a moment!” """

    One can't help feeling that this might work over arguing doctrine. The other thing I've often thought is that it's as if Witnesses want/need permission to get off the treadmill. I think they've all pondered leaving at one time. When I left in 1979 I told my dear friend whom I'd converted :-( that I didn't really believe it any more. And she said: I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN. Yet she's still in to this day. Why did she say that? I should have stopped right then and there and told her it was ok for her to leave too. :-(

    marilyn

  • William Penwell
    William Penwell

    Duncan,

    Good post. I read some years back a book called Games People Play. It describe this as a greeting ritual. For instance 2 men at work walk by and the conversation goes like this:

    MAN 1: Hi How are you?
    MAN 2: Good and you?
    MAN 1: Can complain
    MAN 2: That's good, Bye
    MAN 1: Bye

    They go there separate ways. Now they could do this for years every morning the same ritual. Same thing with J dubs, they have their rituals and as another J dub you go along with it. Have you notice though what happens if you break the ritual? They don't know what to do because you are not following the game. Example:

    SISTER 1: Boy thing can't get any worse.
    SISTER 2: Yeah you can say that again. We can only look forward to the paradise when Jehovah will make things better.
    SISTER 1: Yes that's for sure.

    But what would happen if SISTER 2 responded with, "What do you mean?? Everything couldn't be better. I just got a new job etc." SISTER 1 would not know how to reply because SISTER 2 did not follow the game plan.

    You are so right it is just a way for them to escape reality. I know in the case of my mother she has been playing the game now for over 50 years and it would be very hard for her to change now. That would mean that she would have to omit that she has been wrong for the last 50 years and it would probably kill her. Anyway it is an interesting read.

    Will

    "I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."
    Mark Twain

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