My article on Russia's ban of JW's

by honorsthesis 40 Replies latest social current

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I can present some unwelcome suggestions. Your essay makes assumptions about freedom of religion. It is not a universal value. Western thought, influenced by our particular history and culture, places a very high premium on individual rights, esp. those involving religion. Eastern Europeans and some Northern European countries had a different experience and place their emphais on securing social freedoms. Social cohesion is not viewed as a normative American value. It is in other countries. Both Russia and China have histories of collectivism. An academic must expose her/his own bias. Freedom, a stirring word, is not viewed the same way by every person on earth. It is a shifting, amorphous concept with no universal definition.

    Acknowledging one's own bias is important to academic work. As a Westerner, I value individual religious freedom. My life has been dedicated to it. My values are not sui generis. My parents gave me values and school reinforced those values. I am Christian, and therefore, I have faith in the Trinity, a concept which is neither ratified or denied by the Bible. My faith is based on my background. Would I still believe in Jesus if I were raised in China by Taoist parents? I doubt it. My belief is relative to my culture. Once I acknowledge my bias, I can affirm that this is a major value of my life. Others who do not share it are not wrong.

    The First Amendment's Establishment Clause is my area of expertise. It bars establishments of religion by the federal government, which was also extended to the states after the Civil War Amendments. Separation of church and state does not appear in the text of the Constitution. The phrase was first used by Thomas Jefferson in a nonlegally binding letter to Danbury, Ct. Baptists threatened by the dominance of the Congregationalist Church. The Founders did not view religious freedom as we do. The records indicate that Catholics and Jews were considered beyond the pale. Hardly anyone envisioned their voting or holding public office. The Clause was added b/c of the prominence of Episcoplians in the constl' convention in Philadelphia. Their culture enabled them to be adept wheelers and dealers. Our forefathers arrived here not to practice religious freedom as we conceive today. They came here to impose their denominations on nonbelievers. Rather than risk not becoming THE religion, they compromised on no religion. Several states had established religions long after the const'n was ratified.

    Any casual reader of European history knows the religious conflict from which people sought haven in the wilderness. Europe today has greater religious freedom than the United States in many ways. There is strict separation of church and state by const;l edict in most Western European countries. When 9/11 happened and Geo. Bush mentioned God when consoling the country, he would have been booted out of office in Europe. My focus has been on the American example. Contrasting how Europeans deal with the same tensions as Americans that yields a different result will help me more fully understand the American example.

    This discussion shows that relgious freedom has many different aspects. It is not as simple as either the left wing or the right wing nuts would have it. Indeed, there is no such thing as religious freedom in the abtract but a continuum of religious freedom issue. A simple tick for every provision will not show who wins and is the most free.

    The US Supreme Court, comprised of the most brilliant legal minds in a very large country, is presently deeply divided on this area of religious freedom. All the recent decisions have been 5-4, along party lines. It is a mess. Lower courts must rule on the many cases that come before them based on Supreme Court rulings. It is universally acknowledged that the law is so messy there is no guidance. Since no consensus emerges, the chaos continues. If the Court cannot decide what is a highly cherished American value, I submit religious freedom in other countires is not simple.

  • wobble
    wobble

    Thank you B.O.T.R,

    Any academic treatment of this subject should include an appreciation for the things you mention in your (as usual) excellent post.

    The article written by the original poster could have come straight out of the WT's Writing Department, in other words, I for one would be embarrassed to present it for review by anybody with a bit of worldly knowledge.

  • honorsthesis
    honorsthesis

    I appreciate everyone reading my article and offering a wide-array of feedback!

    A lot of your criticisms are unquestionably valid concerns, and I enjoy reading perspectives I have not previously taken into consideration.

    I have just finished a long day of class and studying, it's now 4:16 am, so I am simply too tired to address many of you right now...but tomorrow I will.

    Any other criticisms, commendations, or feedback in general is welcome!

  • wobble
    wobble

    Nice attitude, Honors, thanks for posting, you must be knackered !

  • Podobear
    Podobear

    JunkYardDog: I see you like to exercise your Freedom of Speech so readily. Tell me: Which combats would Jesus wear if he walked this Earth today?

    Which combats do JW's wear?

    Do you admire their Neutrality or scorn it?

    There are many valid arguments here for an about face in JW doctrine. But, as a whole, do they promote Peace or Hate?

    Ban the Bible... then perhaps ban the JW's.. then see what happens..

    A dime for your considered thoughts...

  • Yan Bibiyan
    Yan Bibiyan

    Podobear,

    Ban the Bible... then perhaps ban the JW's.. then see what happens..

    This is not in defense of JYD, but for the use of the same old slippery slope fallacy to make a point.

    then see what happens?.....then what stops us from banning religion altogether..then who's to say that we shouldn't ban the right of free speech...then it is just as easy to ban entertainment...then we can ban eating outdoors...then cars, planes and traveling can be banned...then we can ban free existense and stick everyone in a camp..then we can just kill everyone who does not conform.....

    See how this can go on irrational whatifs forever. That's why your reasoning has long been identified as a fallacy.

    JYD is obviously very passionate about his views and, frankly, he may have his reasons to feel this way.

    The point of the criticism on this thread is the fact that the JW broke the law in Russia and got punished for it. What law has JYD broken so far?

  • WontLeave
    WontLeave

    Just hold the Russian government to oft-documented JW standards:

    • Believe or speak something we don't tell you to, we punish you or throw you out.
    • JW kids aren't permitted to receive higher education, relegating them to the lower-class.
    • Behave, talk, or look differently, then everybody around you will conspire against you.
    • Try to teach something that's not accepted as orthodox and nobody is allowed to listen to you.
    • Encourage everyone around JWs to spy on them, constantly vigilant for something to report on.
    • Force dissenters from the currently-accepted ideology into secrecy, having to practice their beliefs underground.
    • Demand total unity and unwavering submission to party ideals.
    • Allow propaganda and outright lies against any who refuse to conform, pinning them with pejorative titles.

    Oh, wait... That's exactly what's going on, already.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    People do not post here to be corrected by a self-appointed religious/politcal guru. This is odd behavior which perplexes me. Every person's share here is valid. It must be valid b/c it is their viewpoint. Agreeing or disagreeing is normal. Judging the responses of others through one's own filter is impolite. You post whatever you want to unless you violate forum rules or ISP rules. This thread has already provided valuable insight on the issues from a wealth of viewpoints. You do not judge my legitimacy. I judge my legitimacy.

    If one instantly rejects other's views, one is impoverished. I constantly remind myself that you do not have the education and experience of a full adult yet. You are a work in progress. So I discount your work as I would discount that any of any college student of any belief. College is not your local KH. Mere recitation of facts is not the point of college. Liberal arts college encourage independent thinking. Hard questions need to be posed and answered. When I was in high school and early college, I chanted "ONe side is right, one side is wrong, we're on the side of the Viet Cong" and "hey, hey LBJ, how many boys did you kill today." This is pure politcal speech. Parroting SDS would not ensure college graduation.

    Bragging about your work here is not going to launch your politcal commentary career. Publishing work on the Internet invites criticism. It implies openess to debate and opposing viewpoints. Acclaim may follow but not necessarily. I had precious little time in college. My desire to attend any law school meant I gave up many pursuits. I did not read a book for pleasure during my academic career. My priority was to accumulate enough grades to make it to law school. Law schools focus on LSAT scores and GPA. ETS even has a score to make certain harder schools get adjusted GPAs and the sam is true for low ranked schools. I can assure this website and numerous other sites are not going to impress a law school admission committee once you make the grade and LSAT cut. Being on the op-ed page of the New York Times, Wall Street Journal or WAshington Post would impress them only after you qualify for admission.

    I am endeavoring not to criticize as much as in the other thread. My journey was similar. I can vividly recall the angst, hard work, and uncertainty concerning college, law school and the bar exam. Avuncular advice would be to focus on school. Once you graduate, you have the rest of your life to concentrate on burnishing your reputation as a political commentator. I've worked on many campaigns and Supreme Court litigation. A solid education is the best preparation. Believe it or not, there is life after college and law school, even for Harvard graduates.

  • JunkYardDog
    JunkYardDog

    Podobear; I can't really understand what your asking me. as it's not clear the way you presented it. JUst trying to get an understanding of what you asked me. You asked me about COMBAT. I'm guessing your talking about WAR? You should read the book of joshua etc, about how the jews destroyed and killed everything in sight. some 30 cities, all in the name of JEHOVAH OF ARMIES. killing every WOMEN,CHILDREN, and animal. Just so the jews could steal the land in the name of the WARRIOR GOD JEHOVAH. The jews couldn't take over the Egypt, babylon,greece, or rome. so they went for easy prey. When the big boys came around the Jew's got their asses kicked, Then the jew's have the nerve to Blame JEHOVAH OF ARMIES THAT THEY GOT THEIR ASSES KICKED. IT'S no different than Hitler losing WW2 Hitler bit off more than he could chew. Same as JEHOVAH OF ARMIES. THE JEWISH FALSE GOD JEHOVAH GOT HIS ASS KICKED OVER AND OVER AGAIN... Lets go into the 20 th century. ABOUT 50,000 Americans were jailed for refusal to join the army in ww2 of that there was only a few 1000,s jw,s. SO DON'T MAKE IT SOUND LIKE IT WAS ONLY JW'S THAT REFUSED THE DRAFT. LOOK AT THE VIETMAN WAR, THERE WERE MILLIONS OF PROTESTESTS AGAINST THE WAR AND THE WTS WAS IN THE MINORITY . WITH MAYBE 10,000 YOUNG JW'S THAT DIDN'T WANT TO FIGHT. AT THE SAME TIME YOU HAD 100'S OF MILLIONS UNITED STATES CITIZENS AGAINST THE WAR . NUMBERS DON'T LIE . THE WTS IS FULL IF SHIT ABOUT WAR

  • avishai
    avishai

    Great stuff, BOTR

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