Is it normal to quote without naming the source like WT does?

by InterestedOne 39 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  VM44

  Here is something that The Watchotwer wrote where they quoted someone without naming them, only referencing the person by "As one lecturer said."

  "In the world, there is a tendency to reject leadership. As one lecturer said: "The rising education level has improved the talent pool such that followers have become so critical that they are almost impossible to lead." But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God's organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men taking the lead among us." (The Watchtower, September 15, 1989, p. 23, §13)

  The original source for the quote that The Watchtower used was an article published in the August 6, 1979 issue of Time magazine.

  The articles title was "A Cry for Leadership," and the quotation itself may be read online at:

  http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,948730-1,00.html

  Here is what The Watchtower quoted in the contex of the surrounding paragraphs.

  By one of the great ironies in American history, the rising level of education in the U.S. has at once improved the talent pool from which leaders are drawn and made followers so critical that they are often impossible to lead.Says Economist John Kenneth Galbraith: "When the House of Representatives consisted of machine Democrats from the North and semiliterate farmers from the South, and you came to a question of foreign policy, they yearned to be led. Now you have a House where everyone is a college graduate, and most have advanced degrees. And every one of them feels superior to whoever is President." The same is true of constituents. Says New York Labor Mediator Theodore Kheel: "Now everybody knows as much as their leaders. They aren't willing to believe in 'secret plans' for ending wars or solving problems." (Once again, the almost atavistic appeal of Ted Kennedy contradicts the trend. His followers are willing to trust Kennedy in an old-fashioned way, even though they might actually disagree with his programs, or be ignorant of them.)
  
  At the same time, the general level of critical intelligence and intense watchfulness means that leaders cannot creatively manipulate circumstances as easily, either for good or ill, as they did in the past. A political operator of genius, like Lyndon Johnson, would sink into depressed impotence under such restraints—as at last Johnson did.
• 

  mythreesons

  That is something that never seemed right to me, too.
• 

  Scully

  Without naming or citing the source, the WTS retains control of the information. It's usually because quotes are taken out of context or the meaning altered entirely with the use of ellipses ( ... ). Fact checking becomes extremely difficult, though in the realm of the internet it is not impossible. But it was darn near impossible in the 60s and 70s when my family was being indoctrinated.

  I believe it was AlanF who did an exposé of the Creation book, by looking up all the citations and references it contained and found that the vast majority of sources were quoted out of context and had their meanings altered by the careful manipulation of quotations.

  Here's AlanF's thread regarding the Trinity brochure: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/3174/1/Confirming-WTS-Scholastic-Dishonesty

  I've also checked some sources and in the past and found precisely the same kind of academic dishonesty in the WTS's writing.
• 

  Listener

  VM44 you make a good point. When you research the full taxt of a quote there is more to say regarding a matter.

  What an incredible text you quote from the Watchtower - they do not allow independant thinking (or critical thinking) and they use a quote to support a claim that this is what results from education. However you read from the source which further goes on to state that

  At the same time, the general level of critical intelligence and intense watchfulness means that leaders cannot creatively manipulate circumstances as

  easily, either for good or ill, as they did in the past.

  Regardless of how true the claims are in the Times Magazine to view education itself as an evil is pathetic.
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  White Dove

  My professor said that if any of us quoted and didn't site it, all she'd have to do is Google it and find out where it came from.

  If it looked suspicious and wasn't quoted, even, she'd still Google it.

  She said that it had better not show up or you will be expelled.

  It's plain illegal, even if it's paraphrased, it's illegal to not cite your sources.
• 

  Joliette

  No its not normal, and I'm surprised that the watchtower hasnt been sued for this. Have they? I'm in school right now and if I dont quote where my sources come I'm in deep doo doo. But the watchtower gets away with it, cause their a multi-billion dollar corporation.

  But of course, the watchtower has an agenda when it comes to writing their material for the masses that follows and clings to their everyword. That agenda is: CONTROL.
• 

  FrankWTower

  No, it is not normal. At least not in respected scientific journals. But it seems to be common in Watchtower publications.

  Another thing the WT society is known for is "quote mining." That means, taking a quote out of context, to support another view that was not intended by the person who said/wrote it.

  The watchtower does this a lot. I read the recent works about life and creation (The Origin of Life - Five Questions Worth Asking and
  Was Life Created?) and compared them to a critical analysis some one wrote about them and saw that there were all kinds of errors in them. The writers at the WT have a very distorted view of science. It's pathetic.
• 

  Quendi

  I remember that when the Creator Cares book was published, the speaker made it a point to say the book was targeted toward people who had an education. I was pursuing two university degrees at that time, and I told two Bethelites I knew that the lack of references was a fatal weakness for the book. I went on to say that none of my college professors would ever allow me to turn in work without references, so why did the Society think it should be exempt from sound academic practice, and all the moreso in a book aimed at 'educated people'?

  The Bethelites told me I should make my concerns known to the Society. So I wrote a letter raising them. To my surprise, I got a reply. That reply itself was very curious. Its writer contradicted the words of the convention speaker by stating that the Creator book was not meant for some elite but for 'ordinary people' who wouldn't necessarily want to see so many citations. Well, I knew that was untrue but I let it go. However, in response to my question, a complete list of references for every quote, citation, and allusion was enclosed.

  I believe the reason for lack of full references and disclosure in WTS publications is quite simple. The organization does not want to encourage, foster, or in any way suggest that its readers conduct independent research. Such research will show that WTS writers take statements entirely out of context, omit details that contradict WTS dogmas, or lead the reader to draw conclusions that do not conform to WTS orthodoxy. Even when a reference is named, frequently care is taken not to give "chapter and verse" lest a curious reader go there and find things that will make him or her think along a different path.

  A woman once asked an elder why shouldn't she purchase a copy of Vine's Dictionary of New Testament Words since it was so frequently cited in The Watchtower study articles. The elder replied that she should let the Society through its 'faithful and discreet slave' carefully select and present such material to Witnesses. If she were to read the citations herself, she might very well draw the wrong conclusions, but the 'slave class' could be trusted to convey the information correctly. A response like that shows the subtle nature of the mind control the WTS practices. The iron fist is covered in a velvet glove, giving the appearance of genuine concern for readers and the truth while the rigid and inflexible control imposed on others is accepted without question. That is how I see it.
• 

  NeonMadman

  I owned a copy of Vine's for many years while I was a JW. Also several commentaries, Strong's concordance, Barnes' Notes, etc. Nobody ever gave me a hard time about them. Of course, I am an apostate now...
• 

  Retrovirus

  Quendi wrote

  The Bethelites told me I should make my concerns known to the Society.

  That's what my jw ladies told me also. Are jws taught to give that answer? But in fairness, they accepted that they had some responsibility for the veracity of material they were presenting as "truth".

  Retro