What so bad about having a "clergy"?

by Mr. Falcon 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Mr. Falcon
    Mr. Falcon

    NOTE: Again, I apologize if this topic has been already discussed previously.

    Among the many practices and professed beliefs that I have been indoctrinated into believing my entire life, there is a few in particular that have really made me scratch my head. And this would be the claim that Jehovah's Witnesses do NOT have a clergy. If I'm correct I think this is printed outright in a recent public edition of the Watchtower regarding the beliefs of Witnesses. Yet, throughout my time as a Jehovah's Witness and even as I received certian "positions", I continually noticed certian practices that seemed to contradict this claim.

    When JWs give talks, it is a very common practice to state a word, read the definition and then explain how this definition justifies their belief structure. For instance, how many of us have heard a 50,000 talks that starts off something like this - "Brothers, how would you define hope? Well, Webster's Dictionary defines hope as 'blah blah blah' and this helps us to see why <insert JW belief> is valid." Let's take a moment and use that same tactic to break down the word clergy.

    There are certian words in the Jehovah's Witness vocabulary that makes them immediately think negative thoughts. The terms apostate, Easter and Christendom are examples. Certianly, we can include the term clergy in this nefarious list. Why is this? Well one need only browse through Watchtower publications to read about the evil, corrupt clergyman (cheifly depicted of Catholic and Protestant faiths) or see illustration after illustration of the evil Catholic Pope or Archbishop shaking hands with some Nazi officer or capitalistic caricature that looks like the dude from the Monopoly game. We go door to door challenging people to "question their clergy about what the Bible really says" and how these "clergyman have been lying to them". When a person is continually exposed to such teachings and such a biased viewpoint against the term clergy, is it any wonder that a practicing Jehovah's Witness would cringe at the mere mention of such a dastardly word?

    But is this a fair, justified view towards the word clergy? The term clergy is defined as "A group ordained to perform pastoral or sacerdotal functions in a Christian church." (Merriam-Webster) It mentions nothing regarding whether these individuals are salaried or not, or whether they wear any specific kind of garment such as a robe or mitre. This non-specific definition simply states "pastoral and sacerdotal functions". This would entail anything ranging from complex ritualistic ceremonies to basic everyday administration of the church/temple/synagogue/whatever. Now, in the practices of Jehovah's Witness, teaching, preaching, discipline and other "pastoral functions" are handled primarily through the elder/servant body. When visiting JW hospital patients, they are allowed visitor access as "clergymen". Confession is made not to any average JW, but to the "older men" or elders. When reporters show up occasionally to do a story on our District conventions, the assembly administration doesn't just send any regular publisher, they send an elder, preferably a high-ranking one to represent them in making a public statement.

    I realize that people on this board may differ in their opinion of whether or not the JW elder-arrangement is a valid Bible-based system, but that's a debate for another time. The question here for discussion is simply - is there anything wrong with having clergymen in your particular faith?

    I've given you topic to discuss. Talk amongst ya selves.

    coffee talk

  • Lore
    Lore

    I think most of time they would say that they don't have a "paid clergy"

    They're not exactly claiming not to have a clergy. Just that it is not paid.

    Which, I'm guessing, does not include the compensation the COs get.

    *** w03 8/1 p. 20 “You Received Free, Give Free” ***

    By way of contrast, Jehovah’s Witnesses endeavor to imitate Jesus and his early disciples. They have no paid clergy. Each Witness is a minister charged with the responsibility of preaching the “good news of the kingdom” to others.

    *** w01 6/1 p. 16 par. 15 “If God Is for Us, Who Will Be Against Us?” ***

    Who uphold Bible standards of conduct, at the risk of being considered old-fashioned? What group is noted for having no paid clergy, all of its members being preachers?

    *** w94 8/15 p. 10 Why Do the Witnesses Keep Calling? *** In contrast, the Witnesses have no paid clergy, and often their Bible literature is offered without price to sincere seekers of truth

  • undercover
    undercover

    Don't forget that when an elder gets subpoenaed to testify in a court case regarding some issue involving the WTS or a local JW, they'll try to use the confidentiality of the clergy argument to keep from divulging information gathered in JC meetings and investigations.

    But at the same time, they try to impress on their own followers that all are equal and that all JWs are ministers.

    So which is it? Are all members ministers? Or is there a clergy class in each congregation? Or is the GB the only clergy class? The answer is that they pick and choose depending on what angle they need to work...or how they need to go about avoiding embarrassment in a court case.

  • LongHairGal
    LongHairGal

    MR. FALCON:

    The JW religion flat-out denied to me, back when I was studying, that they had a clergy class. This is the problem. That they lied or misrepresented what they are is what the problem is as far as I am concerned. I would never have joined if they admitted they had a clergy class just like christendom. I could have stayed in the Catholic religion if I had known. They have a plain clothes clergy, but it IS a clergy class just the same. The problem is that there are many problems because of this. You have deluded people in the religion who want to ring doorbells and not work for a living. These people are looking for handouts. Then you have the religion with its campaign against college and careers. So, it is a whole mess they have created.

    I am glad I bailed out years ago.

  • Mr. Falcon
    Mr. Falcon

    Thanks, Lore for quoting those articles. If you look at those quotes that Lore posted and then look at the quotes I posted below, you really see what undercover is talking about. They just go back and forth on the the whole "clergy/no clergy" status. And I thought it was interesting, too that the dates from Lore's quotes are around the same time as my quotes. So it's not like the WTBS is refuting some "old light", this is going on now!

    *** w06 3/1 p. 5 Who Are Genuine Christians? ***
    They have replaced Jesus’ teachings with, among others, ideas like the immortality of the soul, a belief in purgatory, worship of Mary, and a clergy class—ideas borrowed from pagan religions and philosophers.

    *** w02 1/1 pp. 6-7 Is a Classless Society Really Possible? ***

    Jehovah's Witnesses today try to live according to Scriptural principles. They recognize that social classes have no meaning in the eyes of God. Thus, they have no clergy/laity division.

    This is defininetly one of the things that "stumbled" me. And honestly, even if the WTBS was careful to only print that we don't have a paid clergy, if you speak to any Jehovah Witness and ask them if they have a clergy, they will emphatically say NO! and even try to point to things that "defend" that belief.

  • VM44
    VM44

    The reason why the JWs say they have "no clergy class" is because they do not use the word "clergy."

    The use the word "elder" and so they do have an "elder class."

    And they also have a "paid Circuit Overseer class", and a "paid Special Pioneer class."

    It is all about using different words to show that they are different.

  • VM44
    VM44

    Watchtower says: "Thus, they have no clergy/laity division."

    Baloney! There very much is a division between the "Publisher Class" and the "Elder Class" in terms of the Watchtower organziation.

    For instance, the elders receive special correspondence from The Watchtower concerning various matters relating to the congregation, the publishers don't.

    Who are chosen to be members of a JC? The elder class or the publishers? So there is a "Elder/Publisher division" in the Watchtower hierarchy(*)

    Who is The Watchtower trying to fool by making statements like that?

    (*) A hierarchy is an arrangement of items (objects, names, values, categories, etc.) in which the items are represented as being "above," "below," or "at the same level as" one another.

  • LostGeneration
    LostGeneration

    No clergy/laity division....lol.

    See what happens to a publiser if he/she is seen smoking cigarettes. See what happens if they are seen going into an R rated movie by an elder. Or if they get word that they have been associated with their DFd relatives. The elders will "investigate" them and have total power over them.

    The cold hard truth is that the clergy division of the JW cult act as masters over the faith of the laity. The laity have virtually no freedom to use their conscience to follow what they read in the bible.

    Add to that the clergy/elders have little to no education in dealing with the problems of today. Their magic tonic of "go to meetings/go in service/pray" is all the advice you will ever get from them. At least the clergy of Christendom usually have a college education and the freedom to refer you to a shrink if they think you need additional help.

  • miseryloveselders
    miseryloveselders

    Its true that there isn't a clergy class in the WT, but there is a faithful and discreet slave providing food at the proper time.

  • Mr. Falcon
    Mr. Falcon

    LongHairGal - That's unfortunate that you had to waste your time by being duped by misinterpretations of the term clergy, among other things. You're right, you could've stayed a Catholic. You at least would've been able to celebrate Christmas.

    VM44 - Well spoken, sir. There is definetly a class division. When they babble on delusionally about this supposed "classless equality" they sound like something out of The Communist Manifesto. JWs of the world, UNITE!

    But the question remains: is it really such a terrible thing to have a clergy class?

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