Being responsible for your behaviour

by Luo bou to 20 Replies latest jw friends

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  Heaven

  So Heaven are you saying they are not responsible they can blame the Botchtower for their behaviour

  Robert... the responsibility is dual here.

  Every person has a choice as to what foundation they base themselves upon and how they behave. A key skill needed for everyone is to be self-aware as well as honest with oneself. I see this lacking within many JWs.

  The Botchtower's responsibility is about the types of behaviours they are encouraging and reinforcing and about the information they are teaching their members. Their tactics are not principled, nor is the information they are forcing their members to take in over and over again.
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  NewChapter

  I think for many shunning appeals to some witnesses. Feeds their self righteousness What do you think?

  For a few, yes that is probably true. But my experience has been that for most, shunning causes a great deal of pain for both parites. I remember a close friend of mine having to shun a close friend of hers. This weighed on her all the time. She bought into the idea that shunning was healthy for the sinner and would help them see the light. Like disciplining a child, she reasoned, for their own protection. And that was reinforced through association, talks and literature.

  That said, it was still her decision, (or mine) to shun her friend. Yet, even criminal courts consider mitgating circumstances. Yes, someone may be guilty of theft, but the judge will soften the sentence if he/she understands that a person was under a great deal of pressure with seemingly nowhere to turn and acted out of desperation.

  So, I would consider what motivates the shunner. Was it a true desire to do what was right and help the "sinner", even though the effort was misdirected? Or was it instituted to hurt the shunned person, to prove their own righteousness, to humiliate?

  For those that compare it to disciplining a child, as the WT encourages, they should think about this. When do you ever withdraw love and comfort from your child? They may be sent to their room for misbehaving, but if they get a boo boo, you are right there kissing it. You don't say to the child, "Nope, it's too bad you're hurting, but I can't comfort you until your 5 minutes are up! Go back to the corner!" See, it is a false comparison.

  I suppose we each need to decide how much we hold a shunner responsible. But generalizations and strict reasonings are what WT does. We can choose a more merciful course.
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  Mad Sweeney

  Healthy human beings are a blend of independence and conformity to social pressures.

  Organizations like the Watchtower strive to reduce the independence and increase the social pressures in their membership. Are individual JWs responsible (in that they are fully to blame) for their behaviors in obedience to the Watchtower that hurt (and sometimes kill) family members?

  I don't think so. The rank and file JW is isolated from information that could educate them about alternative points of view (for example on blood or on shunning). Being equipped with only the information the Borg provides, they are not equipped to make informed decisions on such matters.

  Are they completely brainwashed robots who bear NO responsibility for their harmful actions? No, because such complete brainwashing isn't possible using the Borg's methods. It if were, we wouldn't have been able to break free ourselves.

  So that's a long way to go in order to say JWs are somewhat responsible for their actions but the Organization is much more so.
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  journey-on

  My mother shunned my df'd brothers about two minutes....LOL! She said the same thing your mom did. She always said that it was unnatural to treat your own flesh and blood like that and she took the issue to Jehovah in prayer. She confidently believed He did not expect that from a mother that had conceived it, grew it in her womb, loved it, and gave birth to a child. She also liked that scripture that says "in the last days there would be a lack of natural affection." And is there ANYTHING more unnatural than shunning your child?!
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  Truth and Justice

  Hi lou bou to, Good Topic!

  This would be my take on the question. "Yes", we should be responsible for our actions when it especially involves people. Let me paint this picture for you. Imagine!!

  You are disfellowshipped for sinning against God, and you are sitting in the back row as you have been for months. And after many months, Jesus walks in the Hall (which he wouldn't) and says to you "Brother! Good to see you, what a pleasure to see you." The Brother says: "Oh Lord, I am not worthy to speak with you." Jesus then says "Why are you not worthy? Brother says: Well, I am disfellowshipped for sinning even though I was truly repentant, I have to sit in the back and prove myself. I have been sitting in the back for months. Jesus says: By whose authority did they remove you? Brother says: Those men up front, they say the spirit directed organization has rules to protect the flock from people like me.

  I would do anything to see what happens next.

  Jesus at one time made a whip of ropes and drove the cattle and sheep out of the Temple, turned over the money changers, the money brokers in their seats, and overturned their tables. In the case that I just presented , it would certainly be interesting to see how HE would handle such merciless men. To hold back a repentant individual from the fold would only cause discouragement and sadness.

  As my Father once told me, he said that when he sat in on a JC, and the person in front of them was repentant and/or in tears, He felt that he had no choice but to believe and take that persons word. How could I not? In 99% of all cases, it was a sin. You can still love God and still sin. 1% of people are those that absolutely defy God and Christ altogether. Naturally, You would want to protect the Flock. As a witness, I always gave a smily or happy grin to say "Its OK! Hang in there!" when he or she was DF'ed. As a MS, it didn't bother me then, there were times when I would park my Truck 3 or 4 blocks away from the individual and walk thru peoples back yard and climb fences to visit a DF person. Well, the short story is half my family has been out for over 2 decades and I pray every day the other half will soon get free. I do see slight glimmers of hope.

  Happy Trails, Truth and Justice
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  LV101

  these crooklyn CROOKS need to be held accountable. I HOPE GOD DEALS W/THEM.
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  cyberjesus

  Shunnin/Ostracism/Silent Treatment is a form of emotional abuse. The one who practices it becomes an emotional abuser. Regardless of their reasons. The person shunned is emotional abused independently of the reasons behind the action. Now, is the perpetrator responsible for his behavior?

  I grew up in a JW family, our next door neighbors, a family of 5 were Dfd when I was 6 or 7. I remember listening with attention to my Fathers words. We need to avoid contact with them, its a loving action to help them return to the flock.

  Do you question it? perhaps. But you learn to stop your questioning. you are supposed to be obedient to your parents, thats what God says. They know better and they are suppose to be obedient to God with no reservation. So I gladly obeyed my parents and God. I was a good boy. Was I responsible? Did I had a choice? So if you dont question any of these things (Which you are not suppose to do) how can you even wonder if its alright? you dont. as a JW you kill your rationality. YOu conform to the group and just follow orders. The more you want to do Gods will the more you follow his orders and the less you question. When I was 23 I was a MS and I enforced that rule with my own Aunt. I was proud of it...although I felt bad I thought I was doing her good. I was obeying my creator. Did I emotianally abused her? you bet! did she take it? yes. She took the emotional abuse in the name of God.

  Now that I am out I am able to see it. But when I was in, I didnt. If you truly believe you are in the "truth", if you believe the GB is getting info directly from God and that the bible is Gods word and if you are brainwashed to follow ALL their orders then you will follow them and you will do it proudly. it is only now that I am able to reconsider every order I followed and I now realized what I did and who wrong I was. Back then, I was doing the right thing.

  Shunning is abuse, regardless of the reason. Those who practice it become abusers. Some can see it, some cant. The damage is done regardless. However the intentions do make a difference.

  What do you think?
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  tec

  I think intentions make a difference. Probably not much to the person being shunned (or offended by some other thing), but doing wrong out of ignorance is not as 'bad' as doing something you know is wrong.

  Tammy
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  SweetBabyCheezits

  Look up the Milgram Experiment . It was a study performed by a Yale University psychologist in 1961, which measured normal, upstanding citizens' obedience to perceived authority when instructed to perform acts that conflicted with their consciences. It's pretty eye-opening.
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  Mad Sweeney

  Then when you're done reading up on Milgram, check out Asch's conformity experiment:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYIh4MkcfJA