JW's not a cult or sect just Christians...

by sleepy 12 Replies latest jw friends

  • sleepy
    sleepy

    JW's not a cult or sect just Christians , would be the impression you get if you asked most people.
    Oh yes they get anoyed when they get woken up on saturday morning , they know a bit about there stand on blood and christmas, but not much else.

    Hey I went to my local libary today to see what books they had on Jehovahs witness.First I did a search on the computer for CoC, Gentile times.. e.t.c none came up.So I went to the religion section to have a look.
    Lots of books on Mormons , christadephians , christian science oh Jehovahs witnesses ,Damn its the procliamers book.
    Then I found a book Millions now living will never die not the Rutherford version but writen by an ex witness in the 60's.(I noticed a lot of critical notes hand writen in there by people who have read it I bet they never told anyone the'd read an apostate book)
    It was the only book in the libary critical of the witnesses.(apart from a few book that listed the entire range of religions.
    So the point is by and large Jehovahs witnesses are seen as ok. A bit strange but not dangerous.
    How misinformed the world is , Jehovahs witness are a danger to humanity , the belief systems takes peoples lives , chews them up and spits them out.
    You come out as a shadow of what you could have been.

    People need to be more aware of what really happens as a witness.
    I feel only TV or the mass media can do this .People see other religions as dangerous but witnesses as a bit odd.
    I feel we must do more to change this.
    If we don't our children will be next.
    Or maybe it will be the witnesses who will create there own downfall who knows what lenghts they will go to in the future to defend their ever crumbling castle.
    Prehaps they will one day go too far with disasterous consequences.

  • nytelecom1
    nytelecom1

    arent u the guy who was pissed cuz
    his friend was a meat pipe smoker?

  • AjaxMan
    AjaxMan
    So the point is by and large Jehovahs witnesses are seen as ok. A bit strange but not dangerous.
    I feel only TV or the mass media can do this .People see other religions as dangerous but witnesses as a bit odd

    sleepy,

    You provided good points there. The majority of people just think that JWs are just another denomination of Christians and do certainly think of them as odd. Many of them just don't bother to find out/research what JWs are about.

    BTW, since not a lot of people know about them, the number of people being converted are very low relative to the number of hours that the JWs put into converting/baptizing a newcomer anyways. Yes, it is important that the whole world needs to be informed about not only JWs and other high-control groups or cults. However, the world is always like that, some choosing to remain ignorant and some choosing to learn.

    nytelecom1,
    do you have anything better to do or to contribute other than just post ignorant remarks to hijack this thread?

    Ajax

  • mikepence
    mikepence

    The term "cult" is certainly a loaded term. JW's are really not much more radical than your typical fundamentalist group of whatever stripe.

    So, the term Cult can be difficult to quantify.

  • gumby
    gumby

    Quote: JW's not a cult or sect just Christians , would be the impression you get if you asked most people.

    If they are not seen as a cult....they are definately looked at in a bad light to most people.Most...would NOT want their family involved.
    Those who don't care do not know of their teachings.

    Tell anyone about the dubs beliefs and see how they respond.Shunning, blood, apostasy, etc.
    Then ask them if they think they are a 'CULT"

  • anewperson
    anewperson

    The WTS is dangerous cult, over JWs, see: JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES CONGREGATIONS LIST UPDATED TO JANUARY 27, 2002:
    Abbreviations * marks pedophilia/molestation, + marks blood transfusion refused, # marks suicide, -- indicates problem is unstated The compilation is done as an act of love to help provide more protective guidance and awareness.

    ==========================AUSTRALIA=================================
    ADELAIDE: congregations in western & northern suburbs -- BRISBANE: female (26) bled to death 12-98 refusing blood transfusions at Princess Alexandra & Hospital Hospital Liaison Committee member Dale Irwin saying she had pleased God +; Tully Ioannides (f, 18) 12-19-98 refusing blood transfusions also at Princess Alexandra Hospital + CAIRNS: Siman Rapley (30) died refusing blood transfusion 10-2-96 at Cairns Base Hospital + CROYDON congregation in Victoria ("dried as dust") ELIZABETH in Adelaide: immaturity, stupidity FULHAM GARDENS in Adelaide: materialistic, snobbery MELBOURNE: on about July 30, 2000 Domenica Asciutto died giving birth after refusing blood transfusion + Lucia Gangi (age 12) died February 1989 & parents had refused blood transfusions for her + PARADISE in Adelaide: really materialistic, snobbery PERTH: Subiaco: totally dead, loose conduct, matrialistism, snobbery SYDNEY --
    ===========================CANADA==================================
    BRITISH COLUMBIA: Burnaby: Audrey Lawson (31) died December 1987 at Burnaby Hospital GILFORD: gossiping NEW BRUNSWICK: Minto: Alexander Bazowsky (age 5) died July 1989 as youngest of 3 children of Carol & Brian Bazowsky & Grandson of Al and Dorothy Bazowsky + Quispamsis: Joshua Walker (16) died 10-4-94 + NEWFOUNDLAND: St John's: Adrian Yeatts (15) died 9-13-93 at the Dr. Charles A. Janeway Child Health Centre agreeing with parents refusal of blood transfusion + ONTARIO: Cathy Grenci (34) died 6-12-95 at York Central Hospital after blood transfusions were refused + OTTAWA: Jared Brown (age 10?) died 1989 as youngest of 3 children of Gardner & Linda Brown TORONTO: Lisa Kosack (12) died [date not supplied] at Hospital for Sick Children agreeing with parents in refusing blood transfusion +, Hague Park: assorted misconduct

    ==========================DENMARK================================
    Dina Mainz (24) died October 1996 at Hvidovre hospital after blood transfusions were refused + Dan Andersen (15) died summer 1993 after refusal of blood transfusion +
    ===========================IRELAND================================
    child from Clonmel in Tipperary had life save by emergency transfusion then parents and Watchtower Society threatened lawsuit over the transfusion in/about March 2000
    ============================JAPAN=================================
    Presiding Judge Takashi Oshima rejected a claim by a 68-year-old woman from Chiba Prefecture that she receive money because doctors gave her a blood transfusion to save her life after saying they would not noting that this "special contract" between the doctors and patient was "invalid" because mit went "against medicine's first goal, which is to treat and save the life of the patient, against the noble value of human life, and against the doctor's obligation to save the life of the patient in the best possible way."
    ===========================LATVIA==================================
    Elena Godlevskaya (17) died September 1996 in Riga+
    =========================NEW ZEALAND===============================
    AUCKLAND: lated Dec 1993 a judge ruled a S Auckland boy (3) must have a heart operation at Green Lane Hospital to stay alive despite parents' opposition to blood transfusions
    ==========================NICARAGUA================================
    Managua: on/about 1-20-2000 Hazel Borge (10) was endangered if not killed after car accident smashed legs leading to severe bleeding and parents refused blood transfusion at Velez Hospital (mother: Maria Felix Bermudes)
    ===========================NORWAY==================================
    woman (83) died after refusing blood transfusion October 1995 +
    ============================SPAIN===================================
    CARTAGENA: Catalina Galián (27) died 1991 after blood transfusions were refused + SANTIAGO DE COMPOSTELLA: Elihu Canle (age 2) died 2-7-1990 after blood transfusions were refused + ZARAGOZA: Judith Riberas (14)died 1994 after blood was refused + Marcos Vallés (13) died 1994 after blood was refused +
    =========================PUERTO RICO================================
    Ponce: Nelida Gonzalez (55) died refusing blood transfusion November 1992
    =========================SOUTH AFRICA==============================
    Wyndham Cook (15) died summer 1991 & had agreed with parents in refusing blood transfusions
    ========================UNITED KINGDOM==============================
    ANFIELD: nepotism, greed, arrogance FALMOUTH in Cornwall (elitism, cliques, lying, coverups) BLETCHLEY in Milton Keynes --- CAMBS: arrogance FORT WILLIAM in Scotland: man presumptuously disfellowshipped when trawler he sold sank claiming lives until case won on appeal HEATON in Newcastle friendly LLANDUDNO in Wales: corruption/theft LONDON: Yvonne Leighton (28) died on/about 2-5-1993 refusing blood transfusions during post-birth surgery at Sunderland General Hospital, Tyne & Wear+ MAINDY in Wales: --- MANCHESTER's Irlam (scandals, wierd happenings) MILTON KEYNES -- NOTTINGHAM: Brent Bond (24) had his life saved after suffering gash with massive bleeding by renouncing anti-blood transfusion about 6-9-2000 FENNY STRATFORD: overlording, later burnt down PETERHEAD: marking St Ives STOCKPORT in greater Manchester: January 2000 Beverly Matthews (33) resident in Bredbury died after refusing emergency blood transfusion+ WSM: gossiping Emelie Grootjes (19) 1996 at Poole General Hospital in England + Susan Teeney (27) died 1993 after refusing blood transfusion + BRITAIN IN GENERAL: Christopher Burke (47) died January 1989 + ENGLAND IN GENERAL Gary Ricketts (23) died 3-23-1992 & had refused blood transfusions + Brian Hunt (49) died 1992 & had refused blood transfusions +
    =========================UNITED STATES================================
    ALASKA: Special Comment: Several persons in and outside Alaska have commented that there is too much class (rich-versus-poor) consciousness. ARIZONA: Shea Heights in Scottsdale: favoritism etc Tempe -- Wickenburg: infighting,jealousy, self-rightousness Tuscon -- , Andrew James Burns bled to death 8-29-98 at St Mary's Hospital

    CALIFORNIA: Tony Mendez died 6-6-95 at Arroyo Grande Community Hopsital after refusing blood transfusions + Anaheim: Rosario Rios Villagomez (51, husband Freddy) died after refusing a blood transfusion at Martin Luther King Hospital in early 1999 and a Watchtower representative blamed her gallstones instead of the bleeding+ Chino Hills & Chino North: many hypocrite pioneer "elderettes," gossiping, greed, nepotism, cliques, Steve Morales convicted for serial rape * Downey: Gary L Kreider (in late 40s) hanged himself 12-96 Fresno: Lenae Martinez (12) died 9-22-93 at Valley Children's Hospital agreeing with her parents in refusing blood transfusion Gridley: egotism, nepotism, judgmentalism, pedophilia*

    COLORADO: Boulder: Leland Elwyn Davies pedophilia * CONNECTICUTT: Rare Procedure Assists Newborn
    January 23, 2002
    By WILLIAM HATHAWAY, Courant Staff Writer http://www.ctnow.com/news/health/hc-noblood0123.artjan23.story?coll=hc%2Dheadlines%2Dhealth

    Gabriel Vazquez drew his first breaths Tuesday morning after a team of Hartford-area doctors - in the midst of delivering him by Caesarean section - used a rare procedure to bypass a cyst in his mouth that threatened to suffocate him.

    Both Gabriel, at 7.5 pounds, and his mother, Margarita Vazquez, 38, of Hartford, were doing fine Tuesday night even though the mother, a Jehovah's Witness, refused a blood transfusion during the hourlong procedure.

    Doctors at Hartford Hospital and the Connecticut Children's Medical Center said the procedure - known as EXIT or ex-utero, intrapartum therapy - is used to clear breathing obstructions before birth. Doctors said there are only about 12 references in medical literature to the procedure having been done previously.

    The cyst, about 2-by-4 inches and located under the infant's tongue, was discovered a month ago after an ultrasound imaging test ordered by doctors because of Margarita Vazquez's gestational diabetes.

    The cyst had pushed the baby's tongue back, making it unlikely he would have been able to breath after his umbilical cord, with its supply of oxygen from his mother, was cut.

    "There is a good chance the baby would have died" if the cyst had not been discovered, said Dr. Deborah Feldman, member of the high-risk pregnancy division at Hartford Hospital.

    For three weeks, a team of specialists planned the operation in which doctors would open the mother's uterus, pull out the baby's head and insert a breathing device down his windpipe. During the 40 to 60 minutes it took to complete the procedure, the baby would remain attached to the umbilical cord. Meanwhile, doctors from Hartford's Hospital's 5-year-old bloodless surgery center planned to take several unusual steps, including temporarily suturing Vazquez's uterus at the site of the Caesarian incision, to stem a potentially fatal flow of blood.

    Margarita Vazquez, who had given birth to six other children without incident, had told doctors that under no circumstances would she permit a blood transfusion.

    Doctors said the procedure was performed without a hitch. After Gabriel was taken from his mother and the umbilical cord cut at about 10 a.m., another set of doctors removed the cyst from his mouth.

    FLORIDA: KERN: Jeffrey Borilla (25) died May 1986 of over-sedation in county hospital apparently in blood refusal situation California Oceanside - SAN DIEGO: MIRA MESA extreme nepotism separated out SANTA BARBARA NORTH, SOUTH & SAN ROQUE: soap opera-like intermarriage intrigues SANTA CRUZ NORTH -- also in Santa Barbara at Cottage Hospital Frank Blanchet (49) bled to death 5-20-98 from abdominal gunshot wound after refusing transfusions+ STOCKTON: John Alson (47) died August 1992 at San Joaquin General Hospital after refusing blood transfusion + SPECIAL COMMENT: This state probably has the most or greatest percentage of JW's in the United States. One comment (no proof) has been that two main leaders among ex-JWs groups in California are actually pro-Watchtower moles which is why activities there are kept relatively quiet. On the other hand, anti-cult internet work by Randall Watters (freeminds.org) has been especially intensive and effective

    CONNECTICUTT: Danielson -- North Stonington -- Putnam --

    FLORIDA: ORLANDO Largo: Donald MacDonald (27) died in Largo of leukemia after refusing blood 2-2-1986 Cedric Thames (23) died 1991 & relatives refused blood transfusions for him + TALLAHASSEE: Bridget Warner (21) died April 1986 at Tallahassee Memorial Regional Medical Center & had refused blood transfusions + TAMPA: RIO GRANDE: nice, loving FLORIDA IN GENERAL: Thomas Poole (37) died March 1991 & had refused blood transfusions + Special Comment: several of the larger JW congregations in Florida are said to have problems of gross misleadership. One hall in the middle of the state may have seceded in the 1980s

    ILLINOIS: Addison (favoritism, unwanted sexual advances) Canterbury in Markham: favoritism, snobbery Glen Ellen: fast-talking, backstabbing, Wicker Park in Chicago --, Congregation & area in Chicago: 2 females both bled to death giving birth late 1997 INDIANA: Kokomo: Walter Swisher (37) died 5-6-94 at home + Richmond (incompetence) KENTUCKY: Draffensville close to Paducah (pedophilia, harassment) * Special Comment: home to excellent anti-child molestation work by Bill Bowen who resides near Paducah; see his www.silentlambs.org website. MAINE: Augusta (pedophilia, Larry Baker convicted) * MASSACHUSETTS: Cambridge: lording it, arrogance East Southbridge: nepotism Oxford Congregation Sharon -- Worcester South -- Worcester North -- MICHIGAN: Detroit: Kevin Rattenbury (14) was injured by a car hitting his moped 8-6-91 & died after his parents George & Betty of Chesterfield Township refused an emergency blood transfusion at Mt. Clemens General Hospital + Michigan In General: Kevin Rattenbury (14) died August 1991 agreeing with parents to refuse blood transfusions + MINNESOTA: Detroit: Elizabeth Sample (57) died May 1988 after refusing blood + St Paul: Minel Koehler (19) died April 1992 at St. Luke's Medical Center & had refused blood transfusions +

    MISSISSIPPI: Natchez: Barbara Clay (78) died 11-6-97 of heart failure after refusing transfusion + Time for some more in lovely Mississippi:
    Hattiesburg West: arrogance, overlording, wasteful, gunfighter mentality Hattiesburg Central: wasteful Hattiesburg Central: dictatorial, racist comment, verbally trimmed young girl who left home due to abuse as "disobediant" & forced resignation of elder who helped her, etc
    Hattiesburg East: reverse racism, nepotism Petal Congregation: comment unclear about "rednecks" loving children in "their lap" (?) Columbia: long overdue interrogating of girl insensitively about a "brother" said to have exposed himself MISSOURI: Cabool: pedophilia * Camdenton suicide by unnamed man who lay on railroad track 2001 # Cameron or vicinity: molestation/incest* Hannibal: greed, arrogance Independence: Noland Congregation suicide of Vonda (Hayes) James wife of Richard Hayes who was disfellowshipped/shunned # Jefferson City: Estella Conroy in her 50s died 9-3-1990 refusing blood transfusion + Richmond: pedophilia, Tim Gardner convicted & in Moberly maximum security * Sikeston: severe nepotism, greed Springfield area congregations: some very cold & greedy Special Comment: In the 1980s some elders donned sacks and protested outside a convention site. Some comments are that the many congregations have clear indications of cult spying, both visual and electronic NEVADA: near Yerington pedophilia - Daniel Stevens Fitzwater convicted *

    NEW HAMPSHIRE: Hollis: pedophilia, Gregory Blackstock convicted * Wilton: pedophilia, Paul Berry convicted * Special Comment: Indications are that there may be additional lawsuits in and around the state of New Hampshire. Fundamentalists have also been more active here. NEW JERSEY: Bradly Beach: harboring molestor & shunning victim, nepotism Hawthorne: pedophilia * Hackensack: pedophilia * Hatboro on route 263 in Warminster: spying, coverups of affairs, nepotism Jackson: pedophilia/statutory rape incident * Nottingham: paranoia, harassment Paramus: Clement Pandelo pedophilia * Pemberton/Browns Mills: greed Ramapo: pedophilia * Paterson: ignoring incest Pescack: Lora Jaudon (29) died April 1989 at Pescack Valley Hospital & she had refused blood transfusions NEW MEXICO: Special Comment: This state may have one of the largest concentrations of Hispanic JWs. Therefore anti-cult work here needs to involve more usage of Spanish-language materials.

    NEW YORK: ALBANY: Buck Parker (age: 1 day) died 2-11-1986 after mother refused blood transfusion & before hospital could get a court order BUFFALO: Joanne Mangione (30) died 3:30 p.m. 12-6-1990 at Sister's Hospital & had refused blood transfusion + QUEENS: Lysa Biffle died December 1989 at Queens General Hospital & had refused blood or blood products + SPECIAL COMMENT: This is of course the home of the Watchtower Society. More effective work needs done here. The Watchtower Society appears to have pretend ex-JWs who pretend to be mental cases doing much of the anti-Watchtower "anti-cult" work here to discourage more effect real anti-cult activity in and around its Bethel headquarters complex

    NORTH CAROLINA: Millbrook in Raleigh: class snobbery OHIO: Cleveland: Doreen Nielson (49) died 9-19-91 & had refused blood transfusions+ Medina: insensitive verbal abuses Wellsville: registered with Stratton village for door-to-door sales then sued it Wadsworth: Devon Brannan in his early 30's died 1986 by suicide after being disfellowshipped # OKLAHOMA: Tulsa: on 5-8-99 to save a newborn's life Hillcrest Medical Center had to go to court to save a newborn's life via blood transfusion while the parents, grandmother Marcella Buckland and JW Hospital Liason Committe person Matthew Suddock spoke against it OREGON: Brookings: Elsie Wilson (61) died 1992 by suicide after being disfellowshipped for tobacco use # Eagle Point: business improprieties, dishonesty Keizer: Ernie Miranda in his early 30s died in 1989 or 1990 of suicide with gunshot wound to head # Rogue River, (business improprieties, dishonesty Shady Cove business improprieties, dishonesty

    PENNSYLVANIA: Hatboro --, Lansdale: molesters,* gossiping, abuse of power, favoritism Oreland just north of Philadelphia: fierce loyalty to Brooklyn, lying, gossiping, cliquish, arrogance, mishndling incest*, power hunger SOUTH CAROLINA: Andrews, gossiping, snobbery, mean-spirited, molestation, sex scandals Charleston (all 10 halls), Laurens: sex scandals, favortism SOUTH DAKOTA: Rapid City one the "coldest" ever, harshness, only poor pioneers became elders

    TEXAS: Brady: gross incompetence San Antonio (poorer black-white-hispanic very loving Kelsey Crockford (age 2) died 1990 & his parents had refused blood transfusions for him + Irving: on or about 12/06/96 Diego & Tanya Hernandez refused to allow surgeons at Children's Mercy Hospital to perform coorective heart surgery as it would include a blood transfusion in order to save the life of their week old daughter Valerie Marie - fate unknown Special comment: Many JW congregations in Texas (mostly middle-class up) appear to have a severe lack of love. Bonham, Texas, had a hall that seceded in the 1980s. Much anti-cult work is based in and done in Texas UTAH: 2 in the Ogden area: pedophilia with convictions** VIRGINIA: Petersburg (some drunkenness) Virginia Beach (very welcoming) WASHINGTON: Fall City, Washington State: unloving, cliques, anti-college, gossiping, greed North and South Lynnwood: gossiping, backstabbing Port Townsend: snobbery and overlording, greed Othello Washington Spanish: pedophilia, Manuel Beliz convicted & imprisoned at Walla Walla * Seattle Central: cold to outsiders) W VIRGINIA: East, South and West. corruption, child abuse,* favoritism, selfish Elk Valley of North Charleston: nepotism, pedophilia * Beckley Southglen: child abuse New River: child abuse,* Fidelity Group Inc insurance scam

    United States In General: Samuel Andrew Sigfrids died 8-28-2000 after not receiving blood following an accident and signing that he refused a blood while being given morphine, JWs outside the door urging his parents to refuse the treatment; parents disowned his brother for favoring the emergency treatment + John Truong (24) died 1989 after refusing blood transfusions 4 days + Juan Ortega (38) died August 1988 as reported on page 6A in Miami of Aug 31, 1988 & had refused blood transfusions + Ms. - Peyton died under care of Dr. Elisabeth Rosenthal & had refused blood transfusions according to public media & Discover magazine of August 1988 + Unnamed woman (20) died June 1989 & had refused blood transfusions (JAMA)+

    ======================ZAMBIA==============================
    young female died September 1997 refusing blood transfusion + 6 months old female endangered & possibly killed as parents (Mr/s Cleophas Mulumba) from Democratic Republic of Congo refused blood transfusion in Lusaka U Teaching Hospital on/about early Oct 2000

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    I must agree with Raymond Franz, the Jws, though mislead, still are made up of mostly good hearted people. True, their polices are hurtful and destructive (to some) if one chooses to follow them, however, as RF points out, there are many such organizations that have this same quality of control.

    Also, please remember that to many, the “JW way” is very much needed and wanted in their lives. They want others to think for themselves and they would not have it any other way. Only time will tell..................

    Many first century Christians "lined up to die" (For not burning incense to Creaser, let alone for not taking blood, what was more pathetic?) in what they believed in at the time! Where they right in doing so? Or were they part of a "dangerous" religion? Only time will tell...........

    “We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet

  • teenyuck
    teenyuck
    Oh yes they get anoyed when they get woken up on saturday morning , they know a bit about there stand on blood and christmas, but not much else.

    So the point is by and large Jehovahs witnesses are seen as ok. A bit strange but not dangerous.
    How misinformed the world is , Jehovahs witness are a danger to humanity , the belief systems takes peoples lives , chews them up and spits them out.

    I got my mother-in-law discussing religion during our xmas holiday visiting her. I have been married to her son for 14 years. I have known him for 16 years. She is catholic.

    She had no idea why JW's did not do xmas or b-days. I started explaining that and the shunning, etc. She was shocked. The DF'ing and subsequent shunning really surprised her. She knew she did not like JW's (or my mother) however, now she at least has some information.

    Finally, after all these years, we spoke about it. If she can pass the word on to her neighbors (she is in a retirement community in Florida) I will be glad. She has had the JW's come calling twice in two years. The neighbors have talked about the witnesses. I am not worried she will get involved...she could have/should have been a nun!

    The fact remains that people like her are all over. They know nothing of the hurtful, hateful practices that go on. I, for one, am telling any one who asks (when religion comes up).

  • freeman
    freeman

    I know JW’s are not part of a cult, and here is how you can tell:

    If the JW’s were a cult they would have great control over their members lives; controlling everything from how they allocated their time to people they would be allowed to associate with.

    Cults keep you busy and they have to pound their message into your head over and over in order for you to remain under their hypnotic spell.

    Further if JW’s were part of a cult they would demonize and discourage you from talking to former members or even reading their literature.

    Why if they were a cult, they might even tell you what medical care is acceptable and which is not, regardless of the consequences to your well-being.

    Cults are intrusive; they will go as far as trying to control what you and your mate do in the privacy of your own bedroom.

    Yep anybody can tell, JW’s are just good old mainstream Christians.

    Freeman

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    Freemen: Points well taken! Very good........

    “We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet

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