Losing My Religion is a New Film being made ...

by sleepingbeauty 24 Replies latest social entertainment

  • lisaBObeesa
    I'd like to hear from some of you about what I called at the end of my post above, the "legal key." This is an important subject, one, I'm told, that we will all be hearing more about in the months to come.

    But how can it be proven that they demand shunning when everything is printed in doublespeak and code so that it appears that they don't? That is the trick I suppose...Has someone figured it out? Has someone found a way to nail them on this FACT that they deny?

    Will this movie have something to do with it?

    Now that I think about it, I guess the tricky wording is only for family members. There are straight forward directives to shun non-family DF people. Perhaps that is 'the key' that could eventually indirectly help shunned family members...?

  • TheListener

    I found this article interesting and I'm posting an excerpt:

    April 15, 1988 WT pgs 10-20 - excerpt here only (highlighting not in original text):

    What About Relatives?

    11God certainly realizes that carrying out his righteous laws about cutting off wrongdoers often involves and affects relatives. As mentioned above, when an Israelite wrongdoer was executed, no more family association was possible. In fact, if a son was a drunkard and a glutton, his parents were to bring him before the judges, and if he was unrepentant, the parents were to share in the just executing of him, ‘to clear away what is bad from the midst of Israel.’ (Deuteronomy 21:18-21) You can appreciate that this would not have been easy for them. Imagine, too, how the wrongdoer’s brothers, sisters, or grandparents felt. Yet, their putting loyalty to their righteous God before family affection could be lifesaving for them.

    12Recall the case of Korah, a leader in rebellion against God’s leadership through Moses. In his perfect justice, Jehovah saw that Korah had to die. But all loyal ones were advised: “Turn aside, please, from before the tents of these wicked men and do not touch anything that belongs to them, that you may not be swept away in all their sin.” Relatives who would not accept God’s warning died with the rebels. But some of Korah’s relatives wisely chose to be loyal to Jehovah, which saved their lives and led to future blessings.—Numbers 16:16-33; 26:9-11; 2 Chronicles 20:19.

    13Cutting off from the Christian congregation does not involve immediate death, so family ties continue. Thus, a man who is disfellowshipped or who disassociates himself may still live at home with his Christian wife and faithful children. Respect for God’s judgments and the congregation’s action will move the wife and children to recognize that by his course, he altered the spiritual bond that existed between them. Yet, since his being disfellowshipped does not end their blood ties or marriage relationship, normal family affections and dealings can continue.

    14The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home. It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum, in line with the divine principle: “Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person [or guilty of another gross sin], . . . not even eating with such a man.”—1 Corinthians 5:11.

    15Understandably, this may be difficult because of emotions and family ties, such as grandparents’ love for their grandchildren. Yet, this is a test of loyalty to God, as stated by the sister quoted on page 26. Anyone who is feeling the sadness and pain that the disfellowshipped relative has thus caused may find comfort and be encouraged by the example set by some of Korah’s relatives.—Psalm 84:10-12.

    The Court Decision

    16You may want to know the outcome of the court case involving a woman who was upset because former acquaintances would not converse with her after she chose to reject the faith, disassociating herself from the congregation.

    17Before the case went to trial, a federal district court summarily granted judgment against her. That judgment was based on the concept that courts do not get involved in church disciplinary matters. She then appealed. The unanimous judgment of the federal court of appeals was based on broader grounds of First Amendment (of the U.S. Constitution) rights: “Because the practice of shunning is a part of the faith of the Jehovah’s Witness, we find that the ‘free exercise’ provision of the United States Constitution . . . precludes [her] from prevailing. The defendants have a constitutionally protected privilege to engage in the practice of shunning. Accordingly, we affirm” the earlier judgment of the district court.

    18The court opinion continued: “Shunning is a practice engaged in by Jehovah’s Witnesses pursuant to their interpretation of canonical text, and we are not free to reinterpret that text . . . The defendants are entitled to the free exercise of their religious beliefs . . . Courts generally do not scrutinize closely the relationship among members (or former members) of a church. Churches are afforded great latitude when they impose discipline on members or former members. We agree with [former U.S. Supreme Court] Justice Jackson’s view that ‘[r]eligious activities which concern only members of the faith are and ought to be free—as nearly absolutely free as anything can be.’ . . . The members of the Church [she] decided to abandon have concluded that they no longer want to associate with her. We hold that they are free to make that choice.”

    19The court of appeals acknowledged that even if the woman felt distress because former acquaintances chose not to converse with her, “permitting her to recover for intangible or emotional injuries would unconstitutionally restrict the Jehovah’s Witnesses free exercise of religion . . . The constitutional guarantee of the free exercise of religion requires that society tolerate the type of harms suffered by [her] as a price well worth paying to safeguard the right of religious difference that all citizens enjoy.” This decision has, in a sense, received even more weight since it was handed down. How so? The woman later petitioned the highest court in the land to hear the case and possibly overturn the decision against her. But in November 1987, the United States Supreme Court refused to do so.

    20Hence, this important case determined that a disfellowshipped or disassociated person cannot recover damages from Jehovah’s Witnesses in a court of law for being shunned. Since the congregation was responding to the perfect directions that all of us can read in God’s Word and applying it, the person is feeling a loss brought on by his or her own actions.

  • TheListener

    The 1986-2009 WTS Index shows how Pharisaic things have gotten with respect to disfellowshipping. Every little aspect of life must be discussed, decided and obeyed (I'm sure the older indexes would prove just as rule oriented):

    how to treat disfellowshipped: lv 34-35, 207-209; jd 147; km 8/02 3-4; w88 4/15 26-31; it-1 788

    2 John 9-11: w88 4/15 27; it-1 200

    as a tax collector” (Mt 18:17): w91 4/15 20-21; it-2 1070

    divorced noncustodial parent: g97 12/8 11-12; g91 9/22 30

    family members living at home: lv 208; w07 1/15 20; km 8/02 3-4; w91 4/15 22; w88 4/15 28; w88 11/15 20

    family members living elsewhere: lv 208-209; w07 1/15 20; km 8/02 4; w88 4/15 26, 28, 30-31; g87 8/22 13

    ifdisfellowshipped answers the phone: w95 7/15 27

    relatives: lv 208-209; w92 6/1 18-19; w91 4/15 22; w89 9/15 24; w88 4/15 28, 30-31

    how to treat family of disfellowshipped: jd 149-150; w95 7/15 26-27; w91 4/15 23-25

  • Ayer

    Hello Everyone,

    This is Stephan McGuire and jumping in here to comment. Though I worked with Leo on The 11th Hour, he is not associated nor involved in Losing My Religion. As far as any of his family involved, that may be the case, but I really never discussed my JW background with him, so this has never come up in conversation.

    Thank you Barbara as it was really nice speaking with you the other day with Raven and Mike. Looking forward to the conference.

    Thank you everyone so much for helping get the word out on this project. In fact, we are now in initial discussion with a possible investor. Will keep you posted! We do have a Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Losing-My-Religion/290648973074

    Very Best,

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Stephan is still actively seeking contributions and his crack team of unproductive producers and other groupie associates is finding new ways to spend the collected money (more than $30K) without producing a shred of tangible product. The film is not in production, the charity is not formed and operating, the website is not up and running.

    The Facebook site is a major accomplishment, and we all know how difficult and expensive it is to set up a FaceBook account.

    If a simple search is performed, one will find threads related to the "Losing My Religion" film project dating back NINE YEARS at least.

    If you've got money to burn, they will gladly help you do so, and you'll be storing up treasures in heaven, where all that money-smoke has gone.

    The land of Jehovah's Witnesses is filled to overflowing with Ruther-frauds of all shapes and sizes. The biggest, of course, is the WTB&TS itself. There are plenty of other mini- and micro- frauds too. If someone REALLY has a project, it gets DONE without asking for money from the rest of the XJW community, usually. Barbara Anderson and Richard Rawe are excellent examples of individuals who know how to get things done. There is no shortage of individuals who talk about "what they could do" if only they had some of YOUR money. Don't fall for it. Don't give money to grifters who want you to fund their pilgrimage to the next Brooklyn protest.

    If you find yourself compelled to give some of your retirement fund to someone else, find a good legitimate charity like the AMERICAN RED CROSS.

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