Christian DOCTRINE comes from WHERE exactly??

by Terry 21 Replies latest jw friends

  • Terry
    Terry

    The Great Russian composer Igor Stravinsky is purported to have observed: "There is no such thing as Music Theory all though one can be derived from the existing ouvre."

    Or, to put it another way: Doctrine (music or scripture) is an artificial human construct and a derivative. It is a construction of the mind based on what is already there in the work itself.

    The first wave of composers gave way to a second wave who BUILT UPON the first waves ideas.

    Teachers built a complex set of canonical ideas which they taught AS THOUGH no other way was any good at all.

    There was a "best" way and only that was good enough.

    Christian Doctrine was extracted and fashioned artificially too.

    Christianity followed the first wave of Jewish sayings, histories, ideas and orthodoxies.

    Whatever sayings, writings and beliefs the Jews held to be valid, inspirational and divinely guided formed the foundation.

    Hundreds of stories (gospel) about Jesus had circulated and spread. Eventually, these were built into stories.

    These little "books" became: bible.

    Christian Doctrine is extracted from the bible by people who interpret intention from scripture.

    .

    Logically or illogically, the idea was this: ALL our religious ideas SO FAR must have come to us by God. And since they came from God they must be divine. And since they are Divine we better investigate DEEPLY and extract what ONE TRUE THING exists in all of it!

    All these writings MUST mean something. They must fit together into a SCHEME or PLAN for mankind. All we have to do is figure it out and teach it.

    Doctrine was born. Theology was formed. Orthodoxy must follow.

    Nobody seems to question the above basis.

    Nobody argues that these fundamental writings or sayings came from god.

    It was only a matter of sifting through them and GETTING RID OF what didn't seem to fit.

    HERE IS THE RUB:

    The originals had long since vanished. They had NOT been preserved!

    Copies had appeared here and there. Snippets of this and that.

    But, the ACTUAL ORIGINALS had simply worn out or had been destroyed after the copies had been made.

    Think of it like the original paintings of Van Gogh.

    He couldn't sell them. (I think his brother may have bought one). Only gradually over a long time did Van Gogh's efforts acquire merit

    in the public consciousness and come to be valued ever more highly until, at auction, they are priceless works of genius!

    But, there ARE photographic copies of his originals for us to look at.

    The bible had NO SUCH photographic copies. What was preserved can't be compared to anything original.

    Since Christian Doctrine has been extracted from this what do we really have?

    It comes down to this binary choice: either God's Word has been supernaturally preserved in the bible or it has not.

    If it has not then it is simply silly to argue over any doctrine extracted from scripture. Garbage In= Garbage Out.

    What does this lead us to consider?

    IF the bible contains the preserved and uncorrupted word of God then it cannot AT THE SAME TIME be full of corrupt add-ons injected by human hands. Why? Because the Holy Spirit has the power to PREVENT this from happening.

    If the Holy Spirit DID NOT prevent corruption in scripture it follows that the bible is nothing but a corrupt human document.

    1.Why have zero (none, nada, zip) original manuscripts or autograph apostolic writings or epistles been preserved so that we can compare them to the bible which exists today? (The thousands of copies don't mean anything unless they accurately preserve the actual words.)

    2.Why do those who assert the bible to be inerrant (without error) ONLY DO SO about the ORIGINAL manuscripts and NOT the copies from which current scripture is derived? (Hint: remember; there ARE NONE)

    3.Jesus spoke Aramaic and never wrote anything down. The bible only contains a few of Jesus' words in Aramaic "Eli Eli Lama Sabacthani".

    Consequently, HOW can we argue meaning and interpretation over what Jesus said since we DON'T HAVE HIS EXACT WORDS?

    Doctrine, belief, faith, theology all MEAN NOTHING if they have been derived from INAUTHENTIC PARAPHRASE.

    No uncorrupt scripture=No uncorrupt doctrines possible!

    Thanks for listening.

  • Gerard
  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    All doctrines come from men, not just religious doctrines, ALL doctrines.

    It comes from THEIR interpretations based on THEIR understanding and they time in which THEY live.

  • ProdigalSon
    ProdigalSon

    I think I'll let the Master answer this one.....

    "You are searching the Scriptures, because you think that by means of them you will have everlasting life." ~John 5:39

    Isn't this EXACTLY what JW's and other fundies do?

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Well, you can't blame Jesus for trying, LOL !

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    Nobody seems to question the above basis.

    Maybe you should get out more. I can think of a couple of people on this board, besides myself, who probably do not accept your version of how Christianity is constructed.

    Christianity is not nearly as monolithic as you seem to think. The Catholic and Eastern Orthodox religions WERE Christianity for about a thousand years. Yet they had (and have) different understandings of the religion. The Reformation spawned a very wide variety of religious traditions, and was followed by another wave in the last couple of centuries.

    There is a world of difference between a Calvinist and a Unitarian Universalist.

    There are also "Chrisitan" religions that sprang up out of nowhere; JW's, Mormons and Christian Scientists come to mind immediately.

  • J. Hofer
    J. Hofer

    im not sure if this is called "bootstrapping" or "evolution"...

    in the end you can just write down anything, and if it's stupid enough, people will buy it.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Maybe you should get out more. I can think of a couple of people on this board, besides myself, who probably do not accept your version of how Christianity is constructed.

    Christianity is not nearly as monolithic as you seem to think. The Catholic and Eastern Orthodox religions WERE Christianity for about a thousand years. Yet they had (and have) different understandings of the religion. The Reformation spawned a very wide variety of religious traditions, and was followed by another wave in the last couple of centuries.

    There is a world of difference between a Calvinist and a Unitarian Universalist.

    There are also "Chrisitan" religions that sprang up out of nowhere; JW's, Mormons and Christian Scientists come to mind immediately.

    Perhaps you misunderstand me.

    There is no christianity without bible.

    None.

    No denominations of any kind Calvinist or Unitarian Universalist.

    It all BEGINS from bible to.................whatever it is.

    That is my point.

    The PREMISE is bible.

    The conclusions, the doctrines, the theology come from the PREMISE.

    If the PREMISE is erroneous it DOESN'T MATTER what you extract from it and interpret.

    That is all I'm saying.

  • designs
    designs

    I always like how 10 people have 10 different verisons of Jesus yet all feel they have the accurate version...........

    just saying

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Oh, you prefer fundamentalists do you designs?

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