So has the wt given up on prophecy altogether or what?

by agonus 21 Replies latest jw friends

  • Vidiot

    agonus - "I'm not necessarily talking about generic acts-of-god natural disaster type stuff like floods, earthquakes, famine etc. though. I mean primarily specific events involving countries, governments, that sort of thing. For example, the so-called anglo-american world power, the united nations, and the kings of the north and south were all said to play a role in th end times, but they seem to have clammed up on these in recent years. For example, a couple of years back, i think in the kool-aid edition, they mentioned that "very soon militarized elements within the united nations" would soon move to shut down lfalse religion".. And that's the last specific government-related prediction i remember them making, at least in print anuways. Have any of the gb said anything from the platform in recent years regarding such? Any speculation on kings, nations, countries, hell, even return of the nephilim for that matter?"

    Yeah, I noticed after 9-11 that - with the exception of one last run-through of the Revelation Climax book - there was less and less discussion of the WTS's unique eschatology.

    Technically, the "King of the South" is still viewed as the Anglo-American world power, and it arguably is as much of an asshole as the WTS portrays it, but they've never tried to pinpoint the "King of the North"'s identity since the old Soviet Union crumbled. The UN, far from being the imminent tryrannical One World Government of Hal Lindsay's fantasies, or even possessing any real "militarized elements" for that matter, is barely capable of enforcing even the mildest of resolutions, let alone waging and winning a global campaign against organized religion.

    In addition, there's all the advancies in science, technology, and medicine that are improving the quality of life (albeit slowly but surely) of more and more people around the world, including disease elimination, increasingly extended longevity, etc. - but they're taking place in "This Old Rotten System"(TM) by mundane, "real-world" means, as opposed to miraculous/supernatural manifestations in the New System.

    We may have more than the usual quantity of military conflicts, government corruption, etc. going on right now, but with the advent of the Information Age, those days are clearly numbered.

    The closest the WTS has come to touching on their escahatology lately (that I remember, anyway) was suggesting that some form of "World Peace" might occur, but that it would be a lie and a farce ("Peace and Security"), and would usher in the Great Tribulation.

  • blondie

    • Revelation—Its Grand Climax at Hand! (1988, revised 2006), verse-by-verse commentary on Revelation
    • Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy! (1999, revised 2006 [10] ), verse-by-verse commentary on Daniel
    • Isaiah's Prophecy—Light for All Mankind, 2 volumes (vol. 1: 2000; vol. 2: 2001), verse-by-verse commentary on Isaiah
    • Live With Jehovah's Day in Mind (2006), commentary on the twelve minor prophets (Hosea through Malachi) - Online audiobook
    • "Bearing Thorough Witness" About God's Kingdom (2009), commentary on Acts of the Apostles
    • God's Word for Us Through Jeremiah (2010), commentary on Jeremiah .

    Here are some books from 1988 through 2010 that are "study" books about prophetical books. Most of it is obviously regurgitated material from older publications.

  • ProdigalSon

    It's kind of hard to keep your prophecy circus going when your King of the North went out of business 20 years ago.

  • wobble

    I think the idea of peace and security as something to latch on to as a prophetic thing is their best bet. With nations and powers in total flux, it is dangerous to say "China is evidently represented by the image in Revelation that looks distinctly like a take-away meal" or somesuch, then China goes bust the next week, but to generalise about a"false peace" could work for a long time.

    Nations, and economists are realising that the Global Village needs global management, not more fragmentation, and so any moves that bring about unities of nations and peoples are given impetus. So it won't really be a prophecy, as it is on the move already, but by catching the zeitgeist they will appear to some to have some foreknowledge.

    But you are spot on Agonus, they have shied away from writing anything that will look dated within weeks as they used to do, they have learned one lesson.

    Just wait for the release of : "Thessalonians- a Warning Message for our Time !" at the 2012 D.C

  • trevorbv

    I was thinking the same thing about the lack of prophecies in the latest WT books. I can think of several possible reasons:

    1. They prepare a change in prophecies, so they are making the current ones "forgoten", they don't put emphasys on them so when the new ones come JWs will accept them easily, like nothing changed. (Did we belived otherwise in past? I didn't know!)

    2. They realised that prophecies can make them look bad and ridiculous when they fail and they focus on the practical side.

    3. They realised that they can't draw people to the ORG with reason, since religion is not based on reason but on tradition, authority and the desire to belive in something. So they try to draw them by being social and friendly. (When they give advice about how to speak to someone in the preaching work, now they emphase that you should show personal interest, smile and avoid disputes rather than open the Bible).

    4. They don't have good theologians any more. Even if they have they are afraid to change something important since the WT maze could collapse.

    JWs becomes more and more a social organization, but they have little chances of succes since the majority goes to the KH because of the teachings. The social benefits of being a JWs are mediocre at best.

  • wannaexit

    You are right Aganus---there is hardly any talk of those specific prophecies we heard about in the the 70 and 80 decades. i remember all the type and antitype. As other posters have already mentioned, seems like the "prophetizing" died right along with the "oracle" Freddie Franz.

  • fresh prince of ohio
    fresh prince of ohio

    Edited as wannaexit wrote pretty much the same as what I did.

  • Amelia Ashton
    Amelia Ashton

    The urgency seems to have disappeared. When the witnesses first knocked on my door back in the early 80s they certainly did convey a sense of needing to do everything quickly as time was very short and that that seems to have gone over recent years. I was told there may not even be enough time to finish a 6 month study but don't worry cos Jehovah can read hearts. That is how soon they sincerely believed Armageddon could happen.

    What dates could they manufacture up now to bring back that sense of time running out? They have surely used up all permutaions of 70 weeks and 3 1/2 times etc.etc. They will not be able to hold on to the 607/1914 date for much longer. We have the 100th anniversary of Christ's invisble (so didn't really happen presence where he doesn't seem to have a achieved any more than before when he wasn't "present") presence in 2014 in 3 years! They are hardly going to draw attention to that date are they? Any active JWs might be able to answer this one.

  • Vidiot

    trevorbv - "The social benefits of being a JWs are mediocre at best."

    That reminds me of something else I read not too long ago; a recent university study demonstrated that the most successful religions are not the ones with the most appealing or consistent ideology, the nicest services, or the most charismatic ministers.

    On average, the most successful religions are the ones that help meet the concrete, real-world needs of their membership (emotional or physical). Members who have some or most of those needs successfully met often adapt to the ideology, services, and minister after the fact.

    From what I've gathered, fewer and fewer congregations attend to the care and feeding of their membership; the WTS as an organization doesn't seem to really advocate it, either; it stresses submission, obedience, and the FDS/GB2.0's authority.

    If, internally, a member no longer subscribes to the ideology, then what does he or she have to gain by staying?

  • Chalam

    If at first you don't suceed, they try, try again ;)

    However, they has to be some point where one comes to the realisation that one is never going to be able to do something?!

    Strange how different the WT "gospel" is different of that of the prophet Joel , Peter or Paul?

    Acts 2:14-18 (New International Version, ©2010)

    14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

    17 “‘In the last days, God says,
    I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
    Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
    your young men will see visions,
    your old men will dream dreams.
    18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
    I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
    and they will prophesy.

    Acts 2:38-39 (New International Version, ©2010)

    38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

    1 Corinthians 14 (New International Version, ©2010)

    1 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.

    Blessings in Christ,


Share this