Elpiro or any Sincere comments welcome by an active JW regarding their beleifs

by Butterflyleia85 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • Butterflyleia85


    This is sorta directed to you as asking rather then telling… I am studying the Bible and go to many teachers/sources of the Bible… (My sins are being paid for and thus my credit as a Christian in no way is held high enough to make claims of I’m right or your wrong in the eyes of a JW, but I’m still being humble and live now according to God’s Standards with my study in the Bible and Christian believes, so be open minded to the facts of my credit to your idea of standards) My views are expressed below thru use of the Bible regarding the comment you made on this thread…


    He would have to show me that the watchtower is wrong in not participating in wars like the rest of the so-called Christians

    That the watchtower is wrong in putting it’s faith in the kingdom and not man

    That Christians are spread out in all sorts of organizations that think so differently about God they even go to war over it

    He would have to show me that the WATCHTOWER is wrong regarding

    The trinity


    The purpose of God 4 the earth

    That type of thing

    The question is not whither it is wrong not to participate in WAR but whither God allows a true Christians to participate in War

    Is it wrong to judge another Christian (Christdom and Jehovah’s Witnesses are no different, just putting labels are wrong, a form of judgment) for standing up for what is rightfully theirs and for the good of others, which God gave them? Applying these scriptures

    To bear arms…Luke 11:12

    • John the Baptist when asked by soldiers what they should do, didn't tell them to drop their arms and quit being soldiers, the conversation went like this: "Even some soldiers were asking him, "And what should we do?" He told them, "Never extort money from anyone by threats or blackmail, and be satisfied with your pay." (Luke 3:14)

      Jesus, when speaking with the Roman Centurion, didn't tell him to quit being a soldier, instead the conversation went like this: "For I, too, am a man under authority and have soldiers under me. I say to one 'Go' and he goes, to another 'Come' and he comes, and to my servant 'Do this' and he does it." When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those who were following him, "Truly I tell you, not even in Israel have I found this kind of faith!" (Matthew 8:9-10) He was commended for his faith, and not condemned for being a soldier.

      There is no inconsistency with faith and service as a soldier.

    To be misinformed about what is really leading them… maybe in their hearts they believe they ARE being lead by God’s Kingdom like Jehovah’s Witnesses believe and they do what is faithful to God’s Standards (but for outsiders that feel differently like Jehovah’s Witnesses).

    But really who guides their thinking or interprets how they guide their conscience… implying national governments, religious governments (including Jehovah’s Witnesses), or social leaders.

    Jehovah’s Witness do have another form of violence and/or evil that they turn their heads toward, they discipline their children with use of the rode, is that not violence? They deceived or use trickery of words as a tool of vengeance or self-vindication. Yes even they go to war with one another in a smaller scale, like gangs in cities, but the Governing Body step in using Disfellowshipment… like Police in the city. It’s all depending on who controls… but still it’s man.

    God told ones to Stand UP for the TRUTH… but also to pay Caesars things to Caesar. Eph.6:11-18; Matthew 5:39b; Matthew 22:21

    As far as Trinity, Hell, and purpose of God for the Earth. You would be very surprised to know that Jehovah’s Witnesses were not the first to discover similar beliefs.

    Buddhism , Confucianism , Hare Krishna , Hinduism , Black Islam, Jainism , Judaism , Rastafarianism , Gypsies , Shinto, Sikhism, Taoism , Vedanta , Agnosticism, Atheism, Marxism , Naturalism , Secular Humanism , Necromancy, Rosicrucianism , Wicca, Christian Science , New Age, Scientology , Theosophy , Transcendental Meditation , Unitarian Universalist, The Way International, The Boston Church, Children of God, and even Tarot Cards .

    And for me personally I was studying with Latter Day of Saints who are a form of Mormon who don’t believe in Hell but believe in spreading the “Good News” that there will be a earthly paradise and God, Jesus and Holy Spirit aren’t all one in the same since. But that was just one religion I encountered with other then my born and raised religion as a Jehovah’s Witness, I have had friends at school that were in other churches that taught that hell is just an idea and trinity as just an idea… so if there are ones like these that have similar beliefs as ours (being raised as a JW) and even our religion has it’s imperfect flaws with predictions, doctrines, interpretations… what right do we have to JUDGE other Christians??

    So am I to far off to make these statements? As you know I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness so you can reilliterate the scriptures or examples used, but please consider my statemetns too and explain where I maybe far off?

  • Lion Cask
    Lion Cask

    It's a little surprising that such a thoughtful post has no replies after 3 hours. Allow me to be the first.

    On a general level I subscribe to the doctrine of live and let live, coupled with the Golden Rule. If all of us adhered to those simple precepts the world would be a much better place. Even if we do from time to time slip into our own personal headspaces and shut out or, worse, push and shove others. I lose respect for a person's chosen path in life when it causes harm to others. To me that's the line in the sand. I've been married to a Jehovah's Witness for more than three decades and I will not do anything to prevent her from attending meetings or going out on service or any other thing she needs to feel fulfilled and happy in life. I love her deeply, but I have no love whatsoever for the Society to which she belongs. It's not because I don't believe its teachings, although I certainly do not, but because the Society crosses that line in the sand.

    As to judgement, it is not anyone's place to say that people should not be judged. People's actions have consequences and when those consequences cause harm to others then they should be judged.

    Your comment on judgement brings to mind the story of the woman taken in adultery (John 8:3-11). This is where the Pharisees dragged the miserable woman in front of Jesus and asked him if it was ok in his opinion to stone her to death, as was prescribed under Mosaic Law. It was an attempted catch-22. If Jesus said it was not ok, then he violated the law. If he said it was ok, he would be perceived as inconsistent. Christ's response - "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone"— is a clear admonition not to judge. He then went on to forgive the woman of breaking one of his Father's Ten Commandments and sent her on her merry way.

    But here's the problem. Who has the right to judge and punish? How do we as a society and civilisation determine what is and is not acceptable and in what manner wrongdoing is addressed? We would have chaos without judgement and any admonition not to judge is unrealistic. Back to John 8:3-11, what right did Jesus have to forgive on someone elses behalf? Ostensibly a wife or a husband somewhere in the city had been harmed by the woman's actions. In what way should they be mollified?

    You asked for sincere comments. These are mine, even if I am not a JW.

  • Butterflyleia85

    Great answer! Thanks for sharing... and yes I totally agree. That's the thinking of my husband and he had talked to me about his beliefs being just a Christian... and I only knowing Jehovah's Witness stand point. But now I kinda feel the need to go back to my roots as to see if I am right or ok to think this way... just to get a more balanced opinion on verity of beliefs.

    See my husband works for the federal government and in the past I asked him if he was ever made to go to war what would he do? And as far as his religion what's his opinion on others... they take a more liberal aproach and I see his point and now agree with it. So now I tend to wonder, how an active Jehovah's Witness would respond to this.

    I do love any or anyones comments I guess I should have left active JW out because mostly it's the sincere ones I want to hear. Especially from somone who lives with an active JW. What responce would they make to what I just said?

  • AudeSapere
    It's not because I don't believe its teachings, although I certainly do not, but because the Society crosses that line in the sand.

    Nicely put. I agree and like the succinctness of your words that I plan to use them next time I have discussion with someone about the WTS.

    Hopefully you don't mind me plagerizing them...?


  • AudeSapere
    I guess I should have left active JW out

    You might be able to start anew thread stating just that and then cut and paste a link to this thread.

    Maybe that will help.


  • Butterflyleia85

    Good Idea.

  • garyneal


  • AudeSapere

    Looks like she *did* get some decent comments on the other thread, though.

  • thetrueone

    Does anyone else think ELPIRO was a teen living at his or hers parents house pretending to be an Anointed One.

    Probably sitting in their bedroom with the door closed.

    Who just may also be having doubts about the WTS. but is very scared of being exposed.

    Indoctrinated JWs are dutifully fearful of exposing their doubts openly, for the consequences

    can be dreadful, depending how deep they and their family are involved in the Borg.

    That includes Spanish speaking people as well.

    EL PIRO in Spanish means to escape or to beat it

    so there may be some meaning into the name this person chose

  • Butterflyleia85

    lol yelp

    ...thetrueone... yelp I do... haven't heard from that person or seen a post sence. lol

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