Question for all you 'smart (witty)' people.

by misguided 21 Replies latest jw friends

  • pontoon

    Ask how much "new light" comes from the Wat. legal dept. Ask why so many lawyers are needed when GB should be trusting in Jeh. Ask how the GB represents the entire FS class.

  • mamalove

    I am curious what circumstances you will have to talk to him in? Is this in a hospital setting, or some other gathering? That would kind of depend on how I might start to talk about "things."

  • yknot

    Ask why he believes.....

    Ask 'what do yall mean when you say you are 'in the Truth'......what exactly is that 'truth' ? - (truth= Jesus enthroned 1914- see citation)

    *** w81 5/1 p. 17 par. 3 If God Has an Organization, What Is It? ***
    3 Let the honest-hearted person compare the kind of preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom done by the religious systems of Christendom during all the centuries with that done by Jehovah’s Witnesses since the end of World War I in 1918. They are not one and the same kind. That of Jehovah’s Witnesses is really “gospel,” or “good news,” as of God’s heavenly kingdom that was established by the enthronement of his Son Jesus Christ at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914.

    Ask how he understands Gal 1:6-9?

    (Galatians 1:6-9) 6 I marvel that YOU are being so quickly removed from the One who called YOU with Christ’s undeserved kindness over to another sort of good news. 7 But it is not another; only there are certain ones who are causing YOU trouble and wanting to pervert the good news about the Christ. 8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said above, I also now say again, Whoever it is that is declaring to YOU as good news something beyond what YOU accepted, let him be accursed.

    Ask him how he applies the above scripture in light of the WTS proclaiming that holy spirit was taken away in 1918 and almost all of the present teaching are based on communications from angels.

    You can download and print off 1932's Preservation page 51, 193-194 to show angelic guidance and holy spirit removal in 1918-- (end of 51 (angels) end of 193, first of 194 holy spirit/1918)

    Follow up with so .... your 'good news', 'gospel' or 'truth' are 'different' from the Bible's and they were delivered to the WTS via angels...... return to Galatians citation.

    If he has the nerve to cite 'old light' say well ........ but don't yall judge other churches based on their past?

    If he asserts 1919 appointment remind him again that this teaching falls under the angelic directions and not holy spirit. If he asserts 1914 as parousia, tell him calmly that Rutherford maintained 1874 and it wasn't until 1943 that 1914 as the parousia is firmly taught in addition to the 1914 enthronment not being proclaimed until around 1922.

    Smile at him and say don't you think a Bethelite should be well versed in actual JW history , not just the white washed versions of the Proclaimer's book and recent DVD, remind him of what he didn't know and ask him to contemplate how much more he doesn't know ....

    Ask if his reasons for allegiance to the WTS are to please Jehovah.....

    If pleasing Jehovah is key to him ....Say 'make sure all things'....... hand him a slip of paper with the below web addresses saying he should really take the time to actually read what the WTS has printed in times past and that these are addresses to a private collection of WT Publications and a public-domain library


    (DItto on Mamalove's comment about appropriate setting.....)

  • mouthy

    Grace get off this ....You know your not smart or witty!
    Sorry I stumbled in here

  • Terry

    "I can't think of many things which are True that change into their opposite over time. Do you guys at Bethel flinch when The Truth does that?"

  • Finally-Free

    "Do you think the father of the prodigal son should have kicked his son in the balls instead of welcoming him home?"


  • TD
    He has no idea I was a JW, let alone apostate. Can any of you seasoned apostates, smart people, think of anything I can say to him to make him think????

    I'm neither smart or witty but understand people pretty well

    Do not bring up the subject of religion. If he wants to be a normal person with you then let him.

    On the other hand, if he attempts to "Witness" to you, listen politely but refuse to be satisfied with simple declarative statements. Ask questions to help him think:

    "We're living in the last days" --How do you know?

    "Times are worse than they've ever been" --Historically, does human population increase or decrease under truly bad conditions?

    "World War I was the bloodiest war in history" --Weren't the casualties much higher in the Taiping rebellion?

    "The Spanish influenza was the worst epidemic in history" --In it's most virulent form, what was the mortality rate? Does it compare with the Black plague?

    "Earthquakes became more frequent and severe after 1914" --Is there a seismologist anywhere that has actually said that?

    Make him do the work. Make him do the research. He will never, ever question his belief system on your word. It must be his discovery.

  • peacefulpete

    I agree with leolaia, keep it simple and naive. Ask him what he does for a living and ask about the details of communal living. In the end respectfully say, "It kinda sounds like a cult compound." If he says he is free to leave, say :"Well that's good to hear, I've read how some cults ostracize or shun people who want to leave the group." Let it sink in.

  • agonus

    I do not pretend to be "smart" or "witty" (though I've been told my whole life that's what I am). I just wanted to respond to your post, nothing more, nothing less. YOU are smart and witty, so YOU make the call!

  • undercover

    If he's there to visit sick family, it may not be the time to create controversy. Let him deal with what he has to deal with. Some JWs (anymore I'd say 'most') are not 'in your face' about their beliefs. They may never mention it at all. I've found it's best to let sleeping dogs lie. No point in causing confrontation when they haven't done anything personally to provoke it.

    Now...if he brings up religion or tries to 'informally witness' to you, then you can have your ammunition ready. Even then you have to be careful to not set off his spidey-sense. Like several others said, keep it simple and fairly innocuous.

    A good lead in might be the blood doctrine since he has family that is ill. If he tries to share the good news of the kingdom you could admit knowing a little about JWs and their beliefs. Then you could ask what his personal feeling is on abstaining from blood and the repurcussions. How can he justify this from the Bible. Just make sure that you're well educated on the subject and that you can debate if from about any angle. Forcing him to defend it using only the Bible is best because then you can use Jesus' words and examples against the WT dogmatic approach to obeying their contrived law.

    Be careful if you do get in a conversation critical of WT doctrine. When a JW gets cornered, they jump around from subject to subject. Don't let them do this. Stick to one subject.

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