Did Jehovah "Puppet" Saul?

Sharpie

There are dozens of places where God or Jehovah does evil. Here's one.

1 Samuel 18:10 New International Version (©1984)
The next day an evil spirit from God came forcefully upon Saul. He was prophesying in his house, while David was playing the harp, as he usually did. Saul had a spear in his hand

Saul never attacked David... just like how Satan puppeted the snake, Jehovah through Saul tried to attack David...

Did anyone view it that way? And can anyone reply with any other places where God or God's spirit did evil things?

Ding

Several times in the Bible God allows Satan to attack His people: this is one, Job is another; Judas Iscariot is another.

Yet the Bible doesn't accept the "puppet" characterization.

For example, James 1:13-14 says, "When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed."

1 Corinthians 10:13: "No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it."

Sharpie

Ya but allow and does is two different things. Such as letting someone get shot while you stand by, or you yourself pulling the trigger

The persecution Job goes under is by Satan, but God is standing by lettting it happen.
God "pulls the trigger" in 1 Samuel because Satan isn't involved at all. It's God's evil spirit doing the work.

peacefulpete

The 1 Sam story reflects a very early perception of Yahweh before he was given an antagonist archenemy (devil). He was just as likely to kill as save, lie as tell the truth. As the culture and people became increasingly sophisticated this type of god image became unsuitable. It appears that the Persian's Zoroastrianism provided the theological solution to the ethical issues of having your deity be responsible for good and bad, giving and taking away. From then on the character and person of a satan grew to fill the need for explaining the harm and misfortune Yahweh's worshippers experienced.

Leolaia

Just to reinforce PP's point:

2 Samuel 24:1: "Again the anger of Yahweh burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, 'Go and take a census of Israel and Judah' ".
1 Chronicles 21:1: " Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel".

See also 1 Kings 22 on Yahweh sending out a "lying spirit" to produce false prophecy.

PSacramento

Can we not see this "change" and how God is viewed as a "revelation" or an "improved" understanding about God by the writers?

We can see a progression of sorts in regards to the understanding about what happens when we die and what happens after what happens when we die ( life after lifer after death) in the OT from the beginning to the exile to after the exiel to second temple and beyond and into the NT.

Perhaps that is what happened with the writeres understanding of God as well.

peacefulpete

PSacremento...We can see the theology evolving on most every topic. In some cases what was once accepted worship was deemed heretical by later writers. In some cases failure to comply with the new reformers' view meant death. Interestingly the changes in Yahwehism generally parallel similar developements within surrounding cults. Religion of the region was evolving and becoming more sophisticated. Developments also seem to have been directly influenced by exposure to new cultures. The Egyptian dominance in Palestine for 500 years left indelible impressions upon the cults of the region. Similarly the Babylonian domination initiated further reforms, as well as the Persian. It never stopped throughout the NT. In fact many religious historians consider Christainity a spinoff from Greek mystery cult as much as Judaism. Schisms and rival sectarianism mark the whole history of Judaism and Christainity. I suspect that this chameleon like character of the religions of the region is resultant the parade of more developed cultures passing through and inspiring the priests and royalty.

The current plethera of Judeo and Christian sects are the result of guessing what doctrinal view is the mature or fully developed view and condeming the others.

PSacramento

That is one way to look at it of course, another way is to see God communicating on multiple levels and mutilpe cultures and those cultures understanding that on their level and of course, sharing some similarities.

It makse sense that Christianity would look like the greek mystery cults in SOME regard, heck it would look like ANY cult that shared some of the same views, that doesn't mean it borrowed from them or vice-versa, it just means that there is SOME "universal" similarities with all religions, which is the case we see.

I don't think that the " current plethera of Judeo and Christian sects are the result of guessing what doctrinal view is the mature or fully developed view and condeming the others", as much as it is a natural "evolution" of understanding and the work of the HS in people, bringing them closer and closer to "the truth".

The fundamentals of religion ( any religion really) should be based on reason and rational, with an understanding to the limits of reason and rational and an understanding that Man is not a "rational" creature.

peacefulpete

I respectfully point out that it is also possible to see the face of God in your burnt toast.

PSacramento

I respectfully point out that it is also possible to see the face of God in your burnt toast.

I wouldn't know, I don't burn toast, LOL !!

Did Jehovah "Puppet" Saul?

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