While in, did you ever rationalize questionable behavior, entertainment, even sin as justifide?

by miseryloveselders 22 Replies latest jw friends

  • miseryloveselders

    I'm not the biggest fan of Depeche Mode, but a couple of their albums were actually ok. There's one track by them I've always loved called, "Strangelove" from their Music For the Masses album, and the lyrics remind me of my own thought process at times. The lead vocalist sings at one point, "I give in, to sin, because you have to make this life livable." You ever feel like that? Like this life is so miserable that you justify certain behavior for the sole reason that you're owed something for all your troubles in this existance? I'm not questioning this from only the JW born in perspective, but also for anyone who has faith in a God that demands a moral code. For instance, I enjoy boxing, and occasionally MMA. I would have loved to box for a living. I just think its a beautiful art requiring alot of talent, grit, heart, and physique. But it bugs my conscience because lets be real, its violence for the entertainment of people. Granted, its not quite as bad as watching Roman gladiators in the coliseum, but its close enough to question it. People have even died from participating in the sport, see Ray Mancini vs. Duk Koo Kim. I'm under the impression Jesus probably wouldn't watch a boxing match over a six pack of Heineken and mild buffalo wings. At the most, maybe if we ran out of beer, he could miraculously make some more.

    This past Saturday, I tossed that reasoning aside temporarily, so I could watch the Bernard Hopkins vs. Jean Pascal fight. I'm a Hopkins fan, and it thrilled me to see him at age 45, school Pascal. The fight was wrongly determined to be a draw. While I didn't agree with the decision made by two out of the three judges, I was still satisfied by Hopkin's performance. For a 45 year ol man, Hopkins still whoops ass. I was on a high from Saturday to as far as Monday evening because of watching that fight. I was even feeling good at the Sunday meeting. The speaker who under any other circumstances would be bland to me, was exceptional. I thought his talk was worthy of raising my hands to chest level and clapping. The WT Study was even tolerable. I never ventured out in the lobby to shoot the breeze, and even participated more than once! Looking back on it, I feel that I needed to watch that fight. I needed something other than alcohol and pills to take the edge off of me. What bothers me, is that I'm not really that bothered by my actions. I feel that it was necessary.

    Last night, I rationalized again. There's a couple folks that are under the weather so to speak. So last night on the way home from work, I stopped at a CVS and got a couple of greeting cards to give to them when I go see them. I don't know if you can relate to what I'm about to type, but have you noticed that when you're browsing through the greeting cards aisles, the reality of being a JW has a stronger impact than typical? The far majority of the categories of greeting cards consist of holidays, celebrations, and moments viewed poorly by the WT. There's only a few categories that are JW appropriate. Most are for birthdays, Christmas, or other holidays. Even graduation cards have limited value in WT land since a college education is tantamount to grieving the Holy Spirit. While browsing through the cards, I got irritated, and the straw that broke the camel's back was when I got noticed the cards related to romance. I'm single, and somedays I'm all too aware of my status. Not to sound arrogant, but I can go get a JW gal, but I'm hesitant to do that as I don't know how long I'm planning on hanging around this religion. It wouldn't be fair to her or mysef. The posts and threads here by those aware of the problems with this religion but still have spouses mentally in makes me all the more resolute to not get involved with a JW female. So some days my need for the affection of a woman becomes overwhelming.

    There's a woman I'm attracted to who works at a nearby restaraunt near the office building I'm in. I'm at times clueless when a woman is giving me the go-ahead. They have to make it painfully obvious to me before I get it. Well, this girl has given me the go-ahead and there's nothing to doubt. One of the cards I purchased was a Thank You card which I intended to give to her, along with a gift card to The Olive Garden which she told me is her favorite restaraunt. I believe she was giving me an opening, and under normal circumanstances, I would have asked her out. Now I'm hesitating because I don't want to give her mixed signals. It might be inappropriate for me to give her the card, but considering its the holiday season, I'm thinking I can give this to her under the guise of me just being in the spirit. She knows I'm a JW, and at first I thought she just found me somewhat intriguing kind of the same way we find strange looking fish on the Discovery Channel. She asked me the typical questions nonJWs throw at JWs, but our conversations as of late have extended beyond that. It's to the point that I'm rationalizing again. I purchased the gift card as a diplomatic approach so as to satisfy my desire to do something nice for her, without crossing the line that would potentially leave her hurt and me reproved, or worse.

    1 Cor 7:39 is ringing in my head like a cowbell. I'm arguing with myself, "Marry only in the Lord Misery! Marry only in the... Oh shut up!! Do you want me to masturbate to thoughts of pioneers too since they're in the Lord?!?" This is deeper than watching a boxing match, but in principle its the same internal struggle. I'm thinking to myself, "I need this. I want this. I know its wrong, but what else do I have in this life? Field Service? Meetings? The Faithful and Discreet Slave? No, I need this! I owe it to myself!" Then I regain my senses, but the thought lingers. It reminds me of James 1:14,15 where he talks about desire giving birth to sin. So I have this card, and I'm tempted to give her the card, and a whole lot more, but I'm hesitating because of the consequences. I'm thinking maybe I should give the gift card to one of The Friends? Maybe a married couple in the hall? I don't know.

    You ever have these conversations with yourself while still a JW? Or even if you've moved on to another faith, do you still have these struggles? Even if you're not of any particular faith, do you struggle with your own code of rights and wrongs? It's like a real life sililoquy. I had to google that word as I can never remember how to spell it.

  • ShirleyW

    Yo Misery - What were you sippin' on this evening when you posted the above ?

    I myself will be having dinner in about half hour so I've got a lil' bit of Chardonnay going on as I read your post.

  • Broken Promises
    Broken Promises

    What's the idea behind the Thank You card? What are you thanking her for?

    Know what? Ask her out for coffee. Nothing more, just coffee one afternoon. Keep it casual. See how you go.

    BTW, coffee doesn't mean sex. It might, but that's up to you and her. At this stage though, I'd suggest you stick to coffee until you feel you're ready to get into a relationship with her.

  • Coffee House Girl
    Coffee House Girl

    I went down that "slippery slope" and did the coffee thing...it was great for a long time, just casual friends, but it got messy at the end...and the whole JW thing kinda tore us apart (since I was still in and not quite faded out yet)...so it is up to you- I still got busted by nosy pioneers just sitting at the coffee shop talking with a young man & got the elders talking to me about the "slippery slope" i was on.

    just know that if it may go beyond the friends thing, you may have to make a decision to get off that fence.


  • flipper

    MISERYLOVESELDERS- Everybody has their hobbies and interests so I never questioned my used to be " brothers & sisters " for their particular behavior. I figured it was between them and God. Like Cain asked, " Am I my brother's keeper ? " I never felt I was. I had enough on my plate to deal with . But yes, I did love Depeche Mode myself. " Music for the Masses " was good, and I also have the album " Violator " - great album.

    I had a MS question my ex-wife ( a devout JW ) " Do you think Mr. Flipper had poblems because he listened to rock music too much ? " LOL ! Actually Mr. Flipper did BETTER by listening to Rock music it gave me an independent thinking mind and made it easier to leave the cult and escape the mind control ! So, yeah, I justified living life and having a good time while I was a witness . I was never a prude. I enjoy having fun

  • miseryloveselders

    Thanks for your comments, I always love the feedback on this forum.

    ShirleyW, I didn't have anything to drink when posting that other than a bottled water. I was wrapping up the work day when I did it. I gotta little Hennesey right now. Gonna hit the sack in a little bit.

    Broken, I picked the Thank You card just to say thanks, it was the only appropriate card. Everything else in that aisle was themed. I suppose I could have looked harder for the blank cards. I just really wanted to do something nice for her. But I have to be careful not to send the wrong messenges. I fear I may have already done that. We talk after she's done with work.

    CHG, getting off that fence is what scares me at times. I've got a game plan, and its set to go in motion. The timing is flawed right now. But its coming, I just need to see some things through first, such as this upcoming KM School. There's definately light at the end of the tunnel. What you mentioned about the potential for a messy relationship is what makes me hesitate to pursue anything more than giving her this card. The more I think about it, I'm leaning towards not giving her the card, and possibly avoiding the place all together. It started as just a place I would drop in occasionally and talk with her. Lately we've been talking more than just by chance, or briefly.

    Mr.Flipper, I have the Violater album too man!!!! To me the Violater and Music For the Masses are really the only Depeche Mode albums to have. The other albums are for the die hard fans. The die hard Depeche Mode fans are into that stuff too!!! They're obsessed with that music, and that whole scene. Have you seen the Techno Viking? Google that if you've never seen him. You get the sense of what I'm dealing with. I still listen to questionable music now. I grew up on HipHop, so its in my veins, I don't think I can ever stop listening to it. I couldn't imagine music without it. I'm editing my Wu-Tang playlist while browsing this forum. I love hardcore punk, and I couldn't imagine a life without it! I've wondered to myself what would Glen Danzig say to Ted Jaracz if he was still alive? When I was younger, I'd have guilt trips over this or that, and I'd toss all my rap albums in the trash. Nowadays I'm not tossing anything. Music makes this life tolerable. I don't judge other JWs or even other people any more. Every now and then I have to check myself, because I find myself judging people. Even some of the folks on here. I always have to tell myself, "Misery, who are you, who do you think you are?" I guess one can't shed the JW mentality right away.

    I guess the whole thing I was trying to express in the first place is that without the questionable tastes and activities, life would be pretty boring. Between's life's responsibilities, and the WT's hamster wheel routine, one has to find an outlet. This so called spiritual paradise, and faith in a paradise on earth just isn't enough for me anymore. I still believe in wrong and right as outlined in the scriptures, although trying to stick with it mutha lova at times.

  • Violia

    I just can't post what I am thinking. You just seem so sincere. Maybe someone else will say it.

  • scary21

    When I was a young ( unbaptised ) JW girl, 13-16 I went with my dad (unbelieveing) to live boxing, Golden Gloves.....and

    the horse races . It was great!!! In the front row.... With sweat flyin.....My JW mom thought it was nice that I was doing something

    With my dad.....and it was. she was pretty balaced LOVE is the most important thing.....you can't help who you

    fall in love with, just make sure you have things in common(not everything) but the important things!


  • miseryloveselders

    I just can't post what I am thinking. You just seem so sincere. Maybe someone else will say it.

    You think I'm gay don't you? That hurts me, I'm joking by the way. By all means say it. If I post something on here, that means I leave myself open for critique. I'm a big boy, go ahead and say post it. Matter fact I'm offended that you refuse to post what you're thinking. I want to read your thoughts.

  • flipper

    MISERYLOVESELDERS- " Music makes this life tolerable. " You certainly say a universal truth there ! I totally agree ! I listen to my CD's constantly when traveling to jobs ! Led Zeppelin, Beatles, Neil Young, Pink Floyd- you name it, if it's classic rock I've got it ! makes life easier for sure

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