Well, seems you and I, Steve, have some common ground.
Sebastian Ramos and his campaing in Brazil; how can they claim a right to shun you?
by dgp 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Mad Sweeney
It doesn't matter to me who wins the suit because the WT will find a way to do what they wish, despite the rulings of the "worldly" governments. What is positive about the suit is the PR campaign that goes along with it. A PR campaign like that would be great to see in the USA even without attaching it to a legal suit.
If the Borg tightens the grip because of it, so what? The public deserves to be protected from their sneaky cult recruitment techniques. Let them cry "persecution" if they want. At least the real truth about them being a cult will be publicized.
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ESTEE
Great thread!
Yes, with religious groups, there is a never-ending cry for more freedom. Religion, especially "theirs" is the only true religion and deserves free reign to make all kinds of unreasonable rules, because they are religious... of course.
Just because we have left the borg, we have lost all entitlement to freedom...? Just because we are not jw anymore does not mean that our beliefs do not deserve the same rights (double negative). I believe everyone is entitled to freedom of thought and belief, even if it is non-religious.
I am one being shunned by the dubs...my two children.
Thanks for this thread.
ESTEE
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Band on the Run
Aside from what American law actually is, I am tired of the religious right appropriating God. AA says that a Higher Power is of one's own choosing and then uses the word "God" with all its baggage. I am fed up reading that we live in a Christian nation when a simple perusal of the Constitution and the Federalist Papers shows that the Founders did not establish a Christian nation. I lived in Manhattan for decades. It was good to mix with Hindus and Buddhists and even Maoists. Obama appealed to me when he spoke at the Democratic National Convention that endorsed John Kerry and implored progressives not to let the right define God. Progressive churches fueled the civil rights movement.
My family mocks me for being Anglican when they are Catholic. Mock is exactly the right word. Yet most people I know mock Catholics. To me, it is an abuse of power that has nothing to do with religion. Religion is only the screen. I won't argue with the Witnesses on doctrine b/c I feel it brings me down to their level. Another is that I view regular Witnesses as misinformed. They truly believe they have a monopoly on knowing it all. It is very sad. The Society feels like an entirely different creation. The sheer audacity to believe that one speaks for God. I blame modern culture that makes no room for Bible literacy. Like it or not, the Bible has had more influence on our culture than any other book. I am shocked that most people no longer know simple Bible stories. There is also the fallacy that the Bible cannot be understood without aids. Only one aid is needed -- a brain.
The more I know in different feels the more I realize what I don't know and what is incapable of knowledge. People can disagree with me but when someone can compute Eve's menstrual cycle or any other nonBliblical matters, sanity has taken a holiday. Most people yes, yes Witnesses to get rid of them. It may be catty but I love telling my family pedigree and knowledge of Watchtower luminaries and then announce that I have read the Bible and the Society lies.
Adults who become Witnesses agree to be shunned if they fall out of grace. It is almost a contract that exists. I believe the Witnesses have a right to define who is a member. I have no doubt that association with an apostate opens up JW minds. Jewish people define membership through the mother's line. I would not want the government to force Jewish people to accept someone through the father's line. I understand this is very different in Europe. If I were European, I'd have different views. I acknowledge my ties to American tradition. There are no easy answers. Private association means there is no place for government regulation if liberty is to exist.
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dgp
Band on the Run, you wrote:
Adults who become Witnesses agree to be shunned if they fall out of grace
You make reference to many things, but I think this is the one that is most relevant to the subject matter of this thread. Let me, a worldly, deconstruct it.
Adults who become Witnesses
Apparently this leaves out all born-ins. And born-ins are shunned, too.
agree to be shunned
This sounds like they dutifully inform you. I have never experienced this myself, but I'm afraid most people on this board would disagree with the idea that they were "informed" about shunning. And then, what happens with born-ins? Were they warned, or not?
If they fall out of grace.
What do you mean by "falling out of grace"? Sebastian Ramos was disfellowshipped because he wrote some articles that were in agreement with the society's policies, and had them published independently. Does this qualify as "falling out of grace"? My impression is that he had not disagreed with anything, but he spoke his own mind. Sounds more like what a jealous Writing Department would do than what a God would do. Or, we would have to agree that God also ordered that only the Writing Department can publish stuff.
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berrygerry
Does anyone have information on the outcome as well as documentation somewhere online?