by jam 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
:"you shall have no other God,s before me"
Note that God did NOT say, "you shall have NO other Gods." NO! God said, "you shall have no other Gods BEFORE me", i.e. "I am the King Shit God. Any other gods are secondary."
Ergo, it's not forbidden to have other gods, but keep them behind (not BEFORE) BiblleGod.
It's all so simple when you read it and understand it like it is stated, not like people who say it means something other than what was actually stated.
Farkel
Isaiah 44:6 - "...I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God."
Mark 12:32 - "You are right in saying that God is one, and there is no other but him."
Those are pretty simple statements too.
Jam, I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from. God didn't have to compete with other gods, as there are none. But the Israelites certainly had to compete with the 'gods' of other nations. Not that they were real, but those people believed them and followed ways that were detestable to the actual God and creator.
He said not to put other gods before him... because there were many that the surrounding nations, and even the Israelites at times, believed in. It was a law they needed, in the circumstances at their time. But the two examples above show that He did also tell them that there were no other gods. So I don't see the problem.
Tammy
Interesting Topic. I follow the logic. However, there must be some credance to what YHWH means based on what humans regard as
a god to borrow tec's thought. For example, role models. Many people regard actors and athletes as role models. It's only a label, but it does not take anything special to
give that label to just about anyone. There is the thought that if you give too much of yourself/power/time/attention to something, it becomes your "god"
The first time in the bible when it speaks of other Gods is
Gen.3;5 in the KJV bible. For God doth know that in the day
ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye
shall be as GODS, knowing good and evil. Why did satan
say gods. So the question is which bible is correct "be
like God", or be as Gods. Exodus 18;11 "Now I know that
the lord is greater than all gods",.....It comes down too
this, is their one God or lesser Gods according to Exodus20;3.
And if only one God how did mankind get off track so soon
and begain worshiping false Gods. 2500 years from Genesis
too the Exodus and the ten commandments, and we must
remerber between Adam and Methuselah they cover A period
of 1900 yrs. So in less then 600yrs, people begain worshiping
false Gods. I do not get it. The only logic answer for me is ,
people were worshiping false Gods A long time before Adam.
Well, Genesis 3:5 in the KJV - because other versions only have God singular, could also be saying gods because Eve is speaking plural (her and Adam), and so as gods could be referring to her and Adam becoming like gods.
In Exodus, Jethro is speaking there... so I think the question becomes whether or not Jethro believed in other gods.
Also, people do tend to forget (or rewrite) history fairly quickly, even from one generation to the next. Even now this happens. Throw in a few generations, and who knows what people can come up with.
Now if we're speaking about gods in a different sense other than our Creator... as in Satan is the god of this system... or money is your god... then there are other gods, in the sense of some sort of ruler of something. Even God said to Moses that it would be like he was god to Aaron, because Aaron would speak the things that Moses told him to speak (that God was telling Moses)
Tammy
In an ancient document a professor of mine cited years ago was an idea he quoted that has stayed with me. It stated that everything was a system in the midst of like systems. It was so profound that I think it must have been a divine truth. We are in a solar system that is one of billions in our galaxy. Our galaxy is one in the midst of untold billions, and they all make up the universe. If the idea is true, then our universe could be one of trillions we can't see or even be aware of.
If trillions of universes make up a cosmos, then how many trillions of other cosmoi are there? In other words, there might be a great deal we don't know. There could be many true gods.
But how could that be? Isn't God One?
Yes, but when Jesus prayed to the Father about the Twelve, he asked that "they" may be one, "even as WE are ONE."
Here Jesus was explaining the oneness of both He and His Father. They weren't physically one, any more than the apostles were physically one. The scriptures also many times use the plural form of God (Elohim); and Genesis uses the term "we" in the opening chapters. People said Satan was lying to Adam and Eve about becoming as gods, knowing good from evil; however, God Himself said, "Man has become as one of US, knowing good from evil." How can that be a lie?
John states that the faithful will become "joint heirs" with Christ, and that when we "see" God, we shall "be LIKE HIM." If we have physical, resurrected bodies, we will become as Christ, who is in the "express image" of the Father.
The Jehovah's Witnesses don't understand that through Adam's transgression, we stand to gain eternal life and become exalted far beyond the pathetic state of what Adam and Eve were. Who would want to lead the sorry existence they lived, and live in a garden for eternity?
I am gonna channel Designs and suggest that you aske a Rabbi or Jewish Scholar what that verse means within the context of Exodus and Deutronmy.
You sound dangerously lds Cold Steel.
Tec. Which books that made it past the Jewish and Catholic political systems do you think are historically accurate descriptions of the past and why?
I can understand the depictions of Jehovah as the jealous god in the OT who really was culturally competing against Baal, Dagon, Pharaoh and everyone elses god. Everyone else's god could do miracles as well so as a mythical phallus war between tribal gods it all makes sense. The NT had a different agenda by the time the it was cobbled together and that was to promote a one trinitarian overlord( the bible never quite makes up it's mind regarding the plurality of gods ) so that has a different mangle. The fun part is watching believers quote from both traditions to support whichever god(s) they have created in their minds.
I like the idea in the other thread regarding Google as God because it always answers and has the side benefit of not killing people who disagree and use Bing.
Tec. Which books that made it past the Jewish and Catholic political systems do you think are historically accurate descriptions of the past and why?
I'm not sure what you're asking? Something like - Exodus is accurate and Hosea is not accurate? Like that? (I'm not saying that by the way, lol)
Because if that's what you're asking, then I have to say that I don't reason through the books and scriptures like that. Everything gets measured against what I know about Christ, and/or what I know about mercy and love. What I know could be mistaken also, but then I just look to the example that Christ left... that we do know. I can also pray, and do, for understanding.
Even in one book there could be some accuracies and some falsehoods, dependent upon the honesty of the scribes and the honesty/accuracy of the translators... some messages which might have gotten honestly lost in translation.
Tammy
The Bible is not monotheistic, despite common opinion. It mentions other gods (Satan and Jesus) who Jehovah - through his word - says are real and powerful gods. Some gods are mentioned by name: Molech, Chemosh, several Baals, etc. It's not really clear which if any of these gods were figments of human imagination or which actually had an actual personage behind them. Other gods are implied, e.g. some entity was copying Moses' and Aaron's miracles for Pharaoh. From Gen 6:2-4, we can assume angels had the ability to create humanoid bodies for themselves to inhabit. According to 2Ki 19:35, one angel was powerful enough to kill 185k men in one night.
The Bible is clear that angels are "gods" and that they have been worshiped. This reality, as opposed to the opinion there is only one god - the Almighty, has led to confusion when people read the scriptures that refer to other gods. Theories about the "sons of El" - assuming Jehovah, Satan, Baal and other gods to all be equal and actually under a higher god, "El" - have sprung from this confusion.
Who among the gods is like you, O Jehovah? - Exo 15:11
In the middle of the gods he judges - Psa 82:1
Let no man deprive YOU of the prize who takes delight in a [mock] humility and a form of worship of the angels - Col 2:18
To the Jews, there was supposed to be no other gods, since they had come to know the highest one and creator of the rest, Jehovah. They had either seen first-hand or heard about His power. This would be like saying to a woman "I only have eyes for you." Not that other gods don't exist, but this One is the most powerful and demands to be held on high by those who know Him.
