I relate the insights of reading Spong for the first time, solidifying the displacement of theism by the insights of science, seeing how we had created the theistic God in our own image, learning about the first images of Jesus from the letters of Paul, and trying to extract concepts from my Christian experience that were still meaningful in a non-theistic universe.
Spong
by leavingwt 10 Replies latest jw friends
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leavingwt
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whereami
Saw this the other day. Thought of posting it. This Youtuber series is EXCELLENT.
Definately worth watching.
Thanks.
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leavingwt
This Youtuber series is EXCELLENT.
Agreed. This is his latest video, one in a continuing series about his own de-conversion. It's easy to follow.
Why I Am No Longer a Christian
http://www.youtube.com/user/Evid3nc3#grid/user/A0C3C1D163BE880A
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AGuest
seeing how we had created the theistic God in our own image
Yeah, BIG error, that, dear LWT (peace to you!). Particularly for so-called "christians," in light of what the Bible says about that (both, we in His image... which is an error... and He in ours... an even bigger one).
learning about the first images of Jesus from the letters of Paul,
Yet, Paul isn't the first to mention Christ, not even close. Daniel relates one of the earliest... and most accurate... images of my Lord. Paul is only attributed with such because so many follow him... instead of following Christ.
Again, peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
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whereami
Yep that's it LWT. In my opinion, required viewing for doubting JW's or anyone doubting their current faith. Especially Christians.
It really is amazing listening to him slowly deconverting. He leaves no stone unturned. He goes through all the motions that I remeber going through when I finally opened my eyes to the real "truth".
Thanks again for posting this. I hope some will have the courage to watch these with a sincere open mind and think about it instead of giving into their "old" ways.
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whereami
My dear AGuest, (peace always on to you) if I so say myself.
You would be doing yourself a huge favor watching his series. It really is well done. What came across for me was his honest sincerity in wanting to believe what he for so long held on to.
Go ahead and watch it. Don't worry it won't hurt, much.
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leavingwt
Yet, Paul isn't the first to mention Christ, not even close. Daniel relates one of the earliest... and most accurate... images of my Lord. Paul is only attributed with such because so many follow him... instead of following Christ.
Shelby, thank you for your comments/observations.
I'm not very well read on this topic. The gentleman in the video says that Paul only mentions the events of Jesus' death in his letters. Further, he is of the opinion that Paul's letters were written BEFORE the Gospels. Again, I'm very ignorant in this regard. Perhaps someone can comment further on this.
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AGuest
You would be doing yourself a huge favor watching his series. It really is well done. What came across for me was his honest sincerity in wanting to believe what he for so long held on to.
I don't know if I I did myself a favor or not, dear WAI (peace to you!), but I actually did watch the series. And I don't think it resulted in the outcome for me that you and perhaps other might think it... ummmm... might. I think that's because the series... as does virtually every other series of its kind... and the thinking of most atheists... discusses matters that pertain to those who call themselves "christians." Because they believe or belong to a certain religion, doctrine, denomination, or "faith." These receive their "belief"... from men, however. Whether through recent "revelations" or interpretations of old[er] ones. Men who purport to know what the Bible is and teaches... and then call others to follow them and their beliefs. Men who believe, for example, that (1) the Bible is the Word of God and thus (2) the prime instructor on morality; (3) that you must have others believe what you believe in order for your belief to be valid; (4) who "pray" to God without (5) giving proper due when doing so... OR (6) going through Christ, literally... etc., etc., etc.
I listened to every single video in Evid3nc3's "Deconversion" series (well, 0 to 2.6). I did so with an open mind and heart... as I do with those here, because MY position is that I have nothing TO fear: if there is no God, then stands to reason that I should have no reason to fear knowing that. What truly could happen other than what did when I realized that, for example, Baptists didn't have the truth, nor do JWs? Nothing except me being set even further free. That TRULY is my position, dear WAI. IF the YouTuber was correct, then so be it. One cannot argue with truth, if it IS the truth. But the series didn't address my belief and understanding... and what is occurring with me... not at all.
I would like to clarify, however, that, unlike many who call themselves "christians" (and I have to say, I actually fear for atheists and non-"christians" as a result of the sometimes very radical and often violence-begetting beliefs of these, particularly in the U.S.):
1. I don't have a problem with people who don't believe there is a God. While I realize that so-called "christians" believe such to be demonic, my Lord has never told me to believe such and I have never read where he even addressed such a matter. ALL that he addressed applied to Israel... and those who went with THEM, even if they were from the nations.
2. I don't believe, have not been told, nor have I read... where "christians" are the only people with "morality." Many, besides Israel, were moral... by nature. Indeed, I have often heard... and read... where Israel (and even some 1st century christians) LACKED morality. Such that the first had to be GIVEN a written Law so as to be reminded of it... and those who profess to be "christian" modernly very often belie that profession by their conduct... personally and against others.
3. I have absolutely no problem with science. Again, science pertains to the physical world, which is the world we now live in, and so we NEED science to help us understand THAT world. I have a problem with those who WORSHIP and blindly follow those who take the lead in science (but are as subject to making mistakes as anyone else), just as I have a problen with those who do so as to religion. But those who study science help us understand this world. My position, however, is that we need Christ... to understand the spirit world... which exists alongside this one. Because for those who belong to Christ, as the seed of the Woman our wrestling is not with those in the physical world, but those in the spirit world.
4. I believe that most who think they are praying to God... are not. Rather, they are doing like the Pharisee... and praying to themselves. Because God is not listening. Because they are not in front of Him. Because... they didn't/don't go IN before Him... by going THROUGH Christ.
5. I don't need... or believe I need... others... to believe as I do or worship with... to explain what is occurring with me. If they exist (and I know they do)... WONDERFUL! But I don't NEED them to.
6. I don't believe the "creation" occurred in the manner that many who claim to be "christians" do and teach. My position is based on what I saw, myself. I posted that here, once.
7. I do not believe, teach, or accept that the Bible is inerrant, infallible or, most importantly... the Word of God. Not at all, in ANY way, size, shape, or form. And that is one HUGE differences between me... and the "christians" that series like these... and most posts here... attempt to address.
Only someone who is afraid of losing their PERCEPTION of truth is afraid to speak with atheists or others, or view/listen to anything others say/publish, dear WAI. I can do so because I have no such fear. I don't have it because I AM free. Even from fear. Because I was set free by Christ himself... who says to me as to ANYTHING, "Do NOT fear, child." In addition, I have yet to run across anything that speaks to what is occurring with me. There are all kinds of folks out there who THINK they can address it, because they THINK they know what it is and what's happening.
So, far, however, none have come close, other than those who experience similar, and they would tell me to keep on keepin' on. But for others, there is always some flaw, some lack, in what they are addressing - again, it is usually "christianity"... as this world knows it... which also repulses ME... but not christianity that is borne out in one having received the promises holy spirit and thus becoming a "chosen person"... or "christ-ian"... by GOD'S choice, through Christ... and not their own, by joining some religious denomination.
The WONDERFUL thing that keeps happening, though, is that I get better insight into what YOU all believe. And I get it... and why.
I bid you peace!
A slave of Christ,
SA
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whereami
Aguest I applaud you for taking the time to watch that lengthy series. Kudos to you oh dear one.
I also understand and respect your religious, spiritual position. The video series touched a cord with me because I was able to relate to much of which he went through. The emotional and mental anguish one goes through when dealing with their loss of faith. I'm sure, even thou it's not the case with you, not yet at least, that you also were able to see that with the person who made the series.
Again thanks for watching. At least you can understand a little better the other side of the coin.
Oh, by the way, can you send me a link to this:
6. I don't believe the "creation" occurred in the manner that many who claim to be "christians" do and teach. My position is based on what I saw, myself. I posted that here, once.
I must have missed this. Should be interesting.
And yes, I also bid you great Peace.
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Mad Sweeney
7. I do not believe, teach, or accept that the Bible is inerrant, infallible or, most importantly... the Word of God. Not at all, in ANY way, size, shape, or form. And that is one HUGE differences between me... and the "christians" that series like these... and most posts here... attempt to address.
Shelby, please look for a PM from me later on today. I would like to discuss this.