Are JW's coached to be vague?

by InterestedOne 27 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  blondie

  Yes, the WTS and its members are taught how not to tell the whole "truth" to those who are "interested." The following statement does not mince words but was written to jws only.

  *** w89 9/1 p. 19 par. 7 Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium ***Only Jehovah’s Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil. (Revelation 7:9-17; 2 Corinthians 4:4) They will make up the "flesh" that Jesus Christ said would be saved through the worst tribulation of all human history.
• 

  dssynergy

  Case in point: They can't even be bothered to update the badly outdated Reasoning book, supposedly the JW's "goto" book for doctrinal exegesis.

  Agonus - you give them too much credit - do they even know what a full exegesis is?? It would be nice to have articles that go through the exgesis (if any) when they make doctrinal changes. Instead of saying "ok guys, we've changed our mind again. Now we believe_____, and you will too." - it would be great if they said "we've changed our mind again, and here is why...." with an article that outlined the research and reasoning behind the changes.

  And the idea that only JWs have a scriptural hope for surviving is bunk to me. There is so much they don't know, how can they be so dogmatic about things like that?? It seems arrogant in my view, to be so sure of things about which we have been told "no one knows the day or the hour" and when their own publications say that truly understanding the fulfillment of a prophecy comes AFTER it has been fulfilled, not before.

  DS
• 

  Retrovirus

  On a related issue - whenever I've found a "problem" with their literature or what they say; always the same lines of defence

  1. "prove it" - and you have to prove it from their writings. (Did that with the volcanoes; thanks to Jwfacts)

  2. "it's not important; what is important is. . . " anything else

  3. If you don't let them get away with 2., poison the well "we know you can't trust that person/website/book". Also mention of satan, opposers, apostates.

  4. finally, shoot the messenger "you don't really want to understand, do you?"

  Anyone else experienced this?

  Retro
• 

  dssynergy

  @Retrovirus: when my mom was studying with me and I had questions she said " do you want to do something bad? Is that why you are questioning?" - uh, no I didn't want to do anything bad - I just wanted answers. Geez.
• 

  Retrovirus

  Ah well, when we started to "talk about the bible" my JWs assured me I could ask them anything. Oh well . . .

  But for a Mum to say that to you!

  I'm only beginning to understand, but sometimes it seems JWs act like people with diminished responsibility!
• 

  Joliette

  Great thread. JW'S are very trained, and don't even know that their trained.
• 

  leavingwt

  People do not join cults. They are recruited into them. As with other cults, the JW recruitment process involves DECEPTION. It is absolutely necessary to deceive the new recruit. If the black and white details of the destructive nature of the group are made perfectly clear in the beginning stages (prior to the love-bombing and emotional control), the recruitment process would fail every time.

  Here's a good, recent, example of DECEPTION within the literature. The statement below is one that reasonable people should agree with. However, the WT does not agree with this statement at all. Yet, they print it as if they do.

  Awake magazine, July 2009, page 29

  “No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.”
• 

  InterestedOne

  On a related issue - whenever I've found a "problem" with their literature or what they say; always the same lines of defence
  1. "prove it" - and you have to prove it from their writings. (Did that with the volcanoes; thanks to Jwfacts)
  2. "it's not important; what is important is. . . " anything else
  3. If you don't let them get away with 2., poison the well "we know you can't trust that person/website/book". Also mention of satan, opposers, apostates.
  4. finally, shoot the messenger "you don't really want to understand, do you?"

  Anyone else experienced this?

  I've experienced all four. In addition to these, when I present problems to my JW friend, she says, "I hope you apply the same scrutiny to other groups that you hold the Witnesses to," as if I'm somehow being -more- critical of JW's than anyone else. It's basically an attack on my character, as if I'm not being fair. The funny thing is that I -am- being fair. I'm applying the same intellectual standards I would apply to anything I read or hear. These are challenging people to deal with because, while they heavily criticize other groups, if I apply the same standards to them, they switch and appeal to pity, like I'm being mean to them.
• 

  Retrovirus

  Yes, @InterestedOne, I forgot that one, the Suffering Saint. My JWs would say proudly "well, we expect our faith to be tested in this wicked system of things". So I become one with Satan for asking a logical question.

  Challenging indeed, and they certainly think that different rules apply to them, whether or not they are aware of it.
• 

  Heaven

  It's part of their culture. Vague answers are an indication one doesn't really know what one is talking about. Most of them don't really know what they believe because noo lite keeps them all uncertain and guessing. They don't even know that many of their beliefs cannot be backed up by the Bible.