by Vanderhoven7 57 Replies latest jw friends
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for the scriptures...but life after death is not the issue. Even Witnesses believe born again Christians....well since 1918 anyway, go instantaneously to heaven immediately at death. I'm looking for scriptures that establish that man is born with an immortal soul.
Vander
Spirit and soul are two different things. Even a cockroach has a soul. The spirit cannot die. It is the "I AM" that was given to humans. It allows some of us to reason.
Ecclesiastes 12:7
~PS
According to the bible we have an immoral soul, allegedly inherited from the first freedom fighter, Adam.
This is one biblical truth that I have proved, to my satisfaction, to be true.
Immortal doesn't mean it can't be killed, that would be eternal.
Immortal means that, unless it is killed, it will "live" forever.
Haven't any of you guys watched Highlander?
Thanks, Psac. It makes a difference to know the definition in order to know how to answer.
Tammy
Vander,
What I think my quotes show is that there is a conscious part of a person that survives physical death and doesn't itself die.
This is what I am thinking of as the immortal soul or spirit -- it's called immortal because it doesn't die; the body dies.
Thus, souls of those who had been martyred (i.e. killed) were conscious and cried out to God even though the bodies hadn't yet been resurrected.
(Yes, I'm aware that Abel's blood is spoken of as crying out from the ground; but this quote is different in that specific words are attributed to them and God speaks back to them.)
It's at the resurrection of the body -- when the soul and spirit rejoin the body -- that that the whole person "puts on immortality."
(Yes, I'm aware of "the soul that sins shall die." (Ezekiel 18:4,20) But verse 21 says that the person who is righteous will not die." It seems clear to me that in this context, "soul" is being used as a synedoche for the entire person; it's not speaking of whether or not a conscious part of a person survives physical death.)
What is a/the soul. Remember the bible was not written in English.
JWs quote these two all day long.
4 For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child—both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die.
20 The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.
You never hear them quote the bible says is the death that sin leads toMatthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50, Luke 13:27-29, Jude 1:7, Revelation 20:13-15, Revelation 21:8
Blessings in Christ,
Stephen
All of this is resolved in the complete doctrine of reincarnation.
Using the famous or infamous Ezekial 18:4 would suggest that if the "soul" avoids sinning it is not subject to dying.
