According to fundi Christians, where did people go when they died pre-ransom?

sabastious

Before Jesus offered the Ransom, where did people go when they died?

-Sab

brotherdan

Heaven.

Both Moses and Elijah were alive and well when they appeared to Jesus during his transfiguration in Mark 9:1-8

How did Peter, James and John know they were Moses and Elijah? What, did they have name tags on or something? I mean, if you saw someone magically appear in 18th century garb would you think, "Well, that obviously is Alexander Hamiltion"?

But if you were the writer of Mark and wanted to make a point about Jesus, then this makes sense, doesn't it?

A.D.

Advocatus Diaboli

As to the original question: there are a lot of different types of "fundamentalist" Christians -- now a vague term that usually means "inerrantist" -- with various views on this matter.

A.D.

JeffT

They are in heaven. They explanation I've heard is that Christians today are saved by faith in something that happened in the past (Jesus's death). Faithful people before that were saved by faith in something they knew was going to happen in the future (Jesus' death). It is the same faith either way.

brotherdan

Jesus was talking to Moses and Elijah and having a conversation which you would have seen IF you had read the account. It does not describe the conversation. But it almost certainly would have included greetings. Yes, Moses and Elijah were there. There is no indication for thinking that this was just a made up story or symbolic.

For those that don't have bibles, here is the account:

Mark 9:1-8:

1 And Jesus was saying to them, "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power."

2 Six days later, Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John, and brought them up on a high mountain by themselves. And He was transfigured before them;

3 and His garments became radiant and exceedingly white, as no launderer on earth can whiten them.

4 Elijah appeared to them along with Moses; and they were talking with Jesus.

5 Peter said to Jesus, "Rabbi, it is good for us to be here; let us make three tabernacles, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah."

6 For he did not know what to answer; for they became terrified.

7 Then a cloud formed, overshadowing them, and a voice came out of the cloud, "This is My beloved Son, listen to Him!"

8 All at once they looked around and saw no one with them anymore, except Jesus alone.

Advocatus Diaboli

JeffT,

Are you saying that faithful people of the OT knew Jesus -- or the Messiah -- was going to die in the future? Nowhere is this even hinted at in the OT. And the matter is not even touched upon in the NT!

Also: Jesus own disciples didn't "have faith he was going to die" when he was alive. Kind of odd, yes?

A.D.

Advocatus Diaboli

Dan,

Respectfully, that's the strange tactic that biblical inerrantists have to use to make the Bible make sense or appear less "mytho-poetic" than it does, namely, adding to scripture to even out the rough edges. Like assuming that all the animals in the ark went into deep hibernation for the year long voyage! Ha!

N.T. Wright wrote about this somewhere: that fundamentalists and inerrantists don't want the Bible we have, they want some other Bible with all sorts of additions and qualifications to make it say something that it was never intended to say.

But, believe as thou will. :)

A.D.

brotherdan

Wow...seriously you need to read some of the Bible, Advocatus. The Jews were looking to a Messiah to deliver them from their sins. Their own prophets spoke of such things. They prophesied his death and resurrection. It is true that they (nor the disciples) had the full knowledge of the importance of it all until after Jesus' death. But they had a basic shadow of the things to come.

The entire law was a shadow of what Christ would do. They understood that blood was required for salvation. They sacrificed the animals, but Jesus was to be a propitiatory sacrifice for all sin, past present and future.

brotherdan

adding to scripture to even out the rough edges

How did I add to the scripture? It clearly says that Jesus, Moses, and Elijah were conversing...

According to fundi Christians, where did people go when they died pre-ransom?

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