How do you feel about religion as a whole?
- Truthseeker100 I agree with that. Clearly in human history the idea of religion was a great exercise in imagination and theoretical thinking of a much different time. I just feel maybe in our evolution this thing we created became a prison for our imagination. Dogma. Doctrine. The dark ages were when it was at its most inhibitory and mankind actually took steps backwards and prolonged their evolution by destroying free thinkers.
- all religions are not a snare like the jehovah's witnesses. I believe most religions who help the needy in God's name are what society needs. We need more of those faithful religions and not the ones just begging for cold cash.
Faye and William , of course people can be.moral without being religious , some Christians point to what is called the moral law as a signpost to the existence of God , but that is another discussion .
Steven Weinberg seems to be ignoring ,along with many others the evil done in the name of political ideology . Again what about Communism and Facism ? Thousand of people were treated inhumanely and killed in the name of these causes .Which is ironic when one of the goals of communism was to wipe out religion .
Not really, the idea is to say that people are good because of religion that could also be like saying people are good because of a political ideology.
Maybe its better put this way, there are just bad people and good people, or evil things and good things, no ideology (including political or religious) are the ultimate source of GOOD.
People want to hang their hat on someone telling them what to do and picking the best possible source instead of just being personally liable for upholding good regardless of any man made institution.
I'll admit religion does produce simple rules for getting along with one another on a basic level, not always emotionally healthy, but usually effective. Since the overwhelming majority of people are drones, they need simple rules and egocentric delusions that give purpose and value to their repetitive lives.
While some religions get carried away, for the most part, it does an effective job at pacifying the masses.
If the average person realized what truly rational people were saying, they would collapse into a depression and stop producing & reproducing (their evolutionary purpose). They simply do not have the mental architecture to handle a non-egocentric reality.
The delusional person fights hard against obvious rational ideas because, at some level, they now the high price of consciously admitting their true place in the universe. Think of Douglas Adam's Total Perspective Vortex from Hitchhiker's Guide, "The prospective victim of the TPV is placed within a small chamber wherein is displayed a model of the entire universe - together with a microscopic dot bearing the legend 'you are here'. The sense of perspective thereby conveyed destroys the victim's mind; it was stated that the TPV is the only known means of crushing a man's soul."
If the goal of evolution is survival, and having multiple levels of mindless redundancy is an effective means of accomplishing survival, then why are we trying to wake the sheep?
Maybe we are taking this religion thing too personally and not realizing the reason it is so unquestioningly successful is that it is serving a massive evolutionary requirement. So far, nothing has been able to replace religion's effectiveness at pacifying and giving purpose.
Unfortunately, modern technology combined with religious fanaticism is now threatening humanity. But attacking personal religious narcissism isn't going to work, narcissism will always protect and justify itself.
The goal should be to replace the old opium with another more up to date drug of delusion. The addicts will always be addicts, but they can change addictions. Rather than fighting religion, we need to replace it with something equally self serving, but less destructive.
Obviously, to most people, rational thought and personal responsibility is pale compared to the drama and self glorification of religion. So rational thought will remain in the hands of the minority that appreciate its beauty.
However, for the sheep, we need a better mass delusion.
- well said. we all need some sort of illusion that something, such as religion, is the key to success. but it isn't so. Rationals will always be a rarity saidly.
Freemindfade , the point that I'm making is that people seem to make religion the cause of all the worlds ills .While it is true that religion has been used to try to justify a lot of evil acts so has political ideology. I agree that people are good and bad , to varying degrees , and humans can be capable of terrible things ,as well as wonderful acts of love .It is also part.of human nature to try to excuse the evil they.do by attaching it to an ideology be it religious or political .
Religion has its benefits. For one it functions as a placebo, helping people face hardships and the such. Then as a social aspect, it's cheaper to regulate people of the society than law and police.
But religion can also be the cause of deaths, discrimination and bad prejudices.
biblical fundamentalists for example, has to deal with their cognitive dissonance regarding science. I'm quick to point out to those that claim the bible not to be errant, that the sun does not revolve around the earth. The conversation from here on is rather pointless, but you can understand the problem religion causes with disconnect of communication. It's like politics.
then the religious, just like jw's, have their how faulty view of themselves as having the higher moral ground. I heard at "at least she's a Christian". The person who said this is known for her gossip and pettiness. They delude themselves in thinking of something they don't understand as being right. Moral absolutes coming from a God that out did hitler.
to combate these problems, it does not come from atheism or theism. It comes from humanism, philosophies of life and the understanding of moral psychology.
jhine: here the Salvation Army board members wants gays dead. There also was a scandle of how they use their money, and their prejudice to other non-Christian people.