Soldiers of Jah

by cofty 214 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    If men kill the innocent in war, even unjust wars, are we to point a finger at God when he determines that at a particular point in history this is a necesssary action?

    Yes. Men have murdered men as long as they have existed, yet we still try them for murder.

    Can these sons be integrated into this nation as easily as daughters who marry and bear children can be? I'm not giving reasons only trying to say that we today have no idea what it was like in those times.

    Why would you think this? There are mountains of historical and archealogical records that give us today a fairly good picture of what life back then looked like.

    George Washington was a slave owner, so was his wife. To say today that Washington was a bigot because he did not live as we do without owning slaves is wrong as well.

    He was a product of his times.

    So too with Moses and his day, different times, different circumstances.

    Bingo, the Israelites had no higher moral code, their perfect justice from God was apparently just as brutal and bloodthirsty and ruthless as the nations around them. Nothing special

    We today are killing millions of unborn children something that in Moses' day would have been considered unthinkable and probably also in Washington's day.

    False comparison. Moses was killing unborn babies against the wishes of the pregnant woman and then murdering her. Today abortion is a hotly debated topic and the pregnant woman chooses to do it, but the law still requires that be done before a certain date. Back in the day of Moses, the only way to know a woman was pregnant was to see plainly visible signs, well past the date at which an abortion is illegal today. Sad that our current law is MORE CONSERVATIVE that Moses' divine law that ripped and cutted fully formed babies from their mothers wombs.

    So we hardly have a right to say that we today are somehow more righteous than those who lived long before us.

    See above. We have every right.

    Most Americans never experience war, we kill by proxy with our soldiers, our bombs and drones. If you or I had been born in Moses time we would have been trained to defend the nation at all costs.

    The first portion is irrelevant, the second has already been refuted by you when you said we have no idea what it was like to live in those times. You cannot then turn around and claim to know what it was like.

    But without the niceties we have today only our own strength of hand. "Finish the job. Don't allow a new generation to come along and our children have to fight this all over again," was a necessary war tactic in times past.

    See above and the further above.

    The Bible is damned if it tells the raw truth and damned if it sugarcoats it. I prefer the truth.

    Since it does both depending the subject, I humbly suggest an unbiased history course.

    What Moses' did was necessary at their time and for their time.

    Of course that is conjecture and completely unprovable, you realize. Without the alternative having been explored, they would never know if it was necessary or not. There are many examples in history of nations absorbing another, cultures merging, that didn't require the complete murder of innocents. Too bad God wasn't able to pull that off and went for murder every time.

  • believingxjw
    believingxjw

    "If men kill the innocent in war, even unjust wars, are we to point a finger at God when he determines that at a particular point in history this is a necesssary action?

    Yes. Men have murdered men as long as they have existed, yet we still try them for murder." (underlining mine)

    Are you saying that soldiers who do the very thing soldiers are expected to do, kill the enemy even to bombing his cities, are then tried for murder? Read a little more carefully, I was speaking of war not unjustified murder something condemned both in the OT and in our society as well. You are seeing what you want to see, something Christians are accused of all the time. Oh, well. Such is mankind and womankind.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Let's see, 7 nations more populous and mighty than the nation of Israel.

    Doomed to destruction because of their perversions: ritual child sacrifices, bestiality, temple prostitution, idol worship, etc.

    Allowed 400 years to clean up their acts, but persisted in their course.

    Israel was told to destroy them utterly.

    If I were an Israelite soldier, I would have felt duty-bound to obey.

    Syl

  • watson
    watson
    Israel was told to destroy them utterly.
    If I were an Israelite soldier, I would have felt duty-bound to obey.

    There you have it! A soldier of Jah.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Damn skippy!

    Syl

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    Are you saying that soldiers who do the very thing soldiers are expected to do, kill the enemy even to bombing his cities, are then tried for murder?

    Yes. You underlined WAR but ignored the word INNOCENT. Men have been tried for war crimes for killing innocent victims. See WII, Afghanistan, etc. Are you saying that killing non-combatants ruthlessly is what war is supposed to be, killing people that AREN'T the enemy, that AREN'T fighting against you?

    Read a little more carefully, I was speaking of war not unjustified murder something condemned both in the OT and in our society as well.

    I did read carefully. I was going off of your words, the "innocent". If they are innocent and not actually fighting against you, then by definition they are NOT fighting in the war. Unborn babies are not carrying a tiny little sword and shield in the womb.

    You are seeing what you want to see, something Christians are accused of all the time.

    Huh? I didn't write the word innocent, you did. It appears that you don't comphrehend the words you write and therefore don't understand the implications.

    Doomed to destruction because of their perversions: ritual child sacrifices, bestiality, temple prostitution, idol worship, etc.

    All things the Israelites also did. So, again, their holy justice was apparently no better than the nations around them, they were one in the same.

  • snowbird
    snowbird
    All things the Israelites also did. So, again, their holy justice was apparently no better than the nations around them, they were one in the same.

    The Israelites, as foretold by YHWH, began to practice those things due to the influence of the Canaanite nations.

    That's why they (the Israelites) were commanded to exterminate them (the Canaanites), which Israel failed to do.

    If I had any money, it would be on YHWH.

    Syl

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    The Israelites, as foretold by YHWH, began to practice those things due to the influence of the Canaanite nations.

    That's why they (the Israelites) were commanded to exterminate them (the Canaanites), which Israel failed to do.

    Exactly, depsite their apparently holy guidance, they were no better and often worse than the nations around them.

    If I had any money, it would be on YHWH.

    I suppose that all would depend on what we were betting on him for.

  • believingxjw
    believingxjw

    "You underlined WAR but ignored the word INNOCENT. Men have been tried for war crimes for killing innocent victims."

    Was the pilot of the Enola Gay tried for war crimes? Was everyone killed in Hiroshima that day an enemy combatant? There were no children, no elderly, no innocents? Wars kill innocent people all the time.

  • diamondiiz
    diamondiiz

    Have the nations of the land been warned to repent or face destruction? It doesn't seem so. Sodom and Gommorah hasn't and they were destroyed. Without a proper warning how could people of the area know any different when they have been raised into their culture similarly to that of any culture today including wts followers. The people were doing wicked works without knowing they were wicked as they imagined they were doing the right thing for their king, priest or god. So were infants of these nations deserving destruction? Without a divine warning how can one be sure that what one does is contrary to one's way of life which he/she grew up with. Today in western society we have media and more or less freedom of information which cannot be compared to some tribes 4000 years ago who lives based on the passed down values and belief system.

    Those were man's wars just like they are today. If there is a god he doesn't care about people other than his own game play. If it's human wars as I see it, I can anderstand it why women and children were killed and why no one was spared but if they were god's wars it doesn't make sense.

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