Silentlambs: Modern-day Folk Hero?

by Derrick 37 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Derrick

  Ah, here we go with usual excusogetics. It will be funny to watch this verbal acrobatics in a desperate attempt to explain away awkward Bible texts.

  Ah, the brevity of it all. Come on, Norm! How could I have possibly engaged in the art of Excusogetics(tm) when I have not licensed its trademark from you, let alone attended any of your brilliant seminars on this timely subject? Oh and by the way, how are sales of the Excusogetics(tm) Program after you dropped the price to $99 recently? I went to http://www.excusogetics.com/ after it appeared in a search engine under the keyword "atheism" the other day, and the site is no longer there (?). ;-)

  Norm, getting serious, why don't you at least take a stab at refuting the scriptures I gave, rather than simply taking stabs in the dark? Why resort to what you yourself call "hand wringing" and "special pleading" in dancing the verbal rumba around these scriptures?

  As a side note, I'm not trying to pick a fight ... but ... uh ... trying to state the obvious delicately ... why must you take advantage of the lack of word filtration on this site? Norm, you know that you could easily economize by abbreviating bull****, and with 4 saved keystrokes! How? By simply type the word "bull" instead to state the obvious. Your post would have been squeaky clean from profanity in the process. Just an observation. ;-)

  Surely you don't think adding shock value will increase readership?

  Derrick
• 

  Norm

  Rick;

  Norm, getting serious, why don't you at least take a stab at refuting the scriptures I gave, rather than simply taking stabs in the dark? Why resort to what you yourself call "hand wringing" and "special pleading" in dancing the verbal rumba around these scriptures?

  Sorry Rick, there is nothing to refute in your post. You failed to explain away why Jehovah and Moses had to butcher thousands of men, women and children, you also failed miserably in proving that Jehovah care for any of them today, in short your post amounted to nothing but verbose hand waving and special pleading. Particularly pathetic was this:

  [quoteRick: ]The history of human civilization has without argument been a bloodbath of pain and suffering for all. All of those precious little babies who died, and everyone else for that matter who suffered the wages of our sinful condition brought about from the disobedience of our ancestors Adam and Eve, will return to life someday! They will not remember their pain and suffering, Norm, so why concern yourself?[/quote]

  Yes, why do we concern ourselves with pedophiles, criminals an terrorists, Rick? Well, the simple answer is that many of us human beings are far superior to your fantasy figure in the sky, Rick.

  Norm.
• 

  anewperson

  Norm, you began with "Weak emotinalism I leave to the "true believers" after all they are the experts there." So clearly to you only atheists are Logical, Reasonable persons - which most logical reasonable atheists will also admit is false. So you indeed are emotionalizing.

  You said "I try to deal with reality and as such I am still waiting for your explanation of how and when Jah has helped all the millions of victims of child abuse?" Since I also honor reality the reality is that whether you speak of our coming from no "source" of creative energy (God) or not, it is a fact, Norm, that all good things come from the efforts of good persons using their minds to do good things, as Bill has done in battling child abuse. And since Bill did not create himself, Norm, then further back in time that source/God that did do so also must get a fair share of the credit.

  You again mocked the idea that humans who have died can be brought back into existence even though a source/God originally brought them into existence when you remarked "Your allusion to some kind of mystic future resurrection do not help much in explaining away the obvious negligence and callousness of this Jah figure you keep bleating about." The expression "bleating about" also shows you are emotionalizing, seeking to attack me directly to cloud the reasonableness of what I said.

  You say God was Horrible to include the slaying of men and women and yet the humans whom you prefer to God also have done that at times and on a far bigger scale than God ever did. The Nazi's holocaust murdered possibly 10 million men, women, children; but those recorded as slain in the Old Testament do not come to a million, and for all you know God had those in the Bible slain for unspeakable acts against their own children like putting them into the arms of a metal idol, heating it red-hot and slowly burning them to death.

  Finally, you really trip over yourself, Norm, when you say you have not used filthy language and then say the very words you did use. Which also again shows that you are not following logic and reasoning so much as emotionalizing and trying to cover it up. Now I leave it to the readers who can scroll up and down this page as to which of us is logical and reasonable in presentation.

  If you want to waste our time with debate instead of join us in simply praising Bill Bowen and victims like Erica Rodriguez for having stood up, then you are sadly misleading yourself in a waste of your time and ours.
• 

  QUEENIE

  I to ADMIRE their standing up...I do not think the old fart of a pervert got enough jail time (11 yrs) NOT long enough BUT then I was not the judge..I were the judge it would have said LIFE WITH OUT PAROLE...LISA has her own opinion as she is a victim herself and I am as well...wives can be raped too..celibacy is great for me--but then nobody ever had sex with brother schmuck did they?? yuck...HAPPY VALENTINES DAY ONE AND ALL !!!!
• 

  sf

  "ONE PLATE AT A TIME...WE IS DOING OUR BEST"

  You go girls!!

  QUEENIE, are you in yahoo chat, at all?

  sKally, laughing her ass off klass
• 

  Norm

  Anewperson,

  You said:

  anewperson: Norm, you began with "Weak emotinalism I leave to the "true believers" after all they are the experts there." So clearly to you only atheists are Logical, Reasonable persons - which most logical reasonable atheists will also admit is false. So you indeed are emotionalizing.

  Umm, no, I know a few Christians which some times are capable of rational thought, at least up to a point. You shouldn’t try to give me attitudes I don’t have in order to criticize them.

  anewperson: You said "I try to deal with reality and as such I am still waiting for your explanation of how and when Jah has helped all the millions of victims of child abuse?" Since I also honor reality the reality is that whether you speak of our coming from no "source" of creative energy (God) or not, it is a fact, Norm, that all good things come from the efforts of good persons using their minds to do good things, as Bill has done in battling child abuse. And since Bill did not create himself, Norm, then further back in time that source/God that did do so also must get a fair share of the credit.

  
  Bill is of course like me and you a result of the union of his parents, so are the child molesters and other perverts. As you know but don’t like to address, God was and is a silent witness to all those children being abused but he never do anything to prevent it.
  That’s what I have been asking you, when did God do anything for any children anywhere? God isn’t helping them in any way and will of course never do.

  anewperson: You again mocked the idea that humans who have died can be brought back into existence even though a source/God originally brought them into existence when you remarked "Your allusion to some kind of mystic future resurrection do not help much in explaining away the obvious negligence and callousness of this Jah figure you keep bleating about." The expression "bleating about" also shows you are emotionalizing, seeking to attack me directly to cloud the reasonableness of what I said.

  
  I do not mock any idea, but you claim that Jah is helping/will be helping the victims of abuse, and when asked to produce evidence of this you start whining about mocking. There simply isn’t any reasonableness in dreaming about some future resurrection, that is something you believe and is as such not near anything even resembling reality.

  anewperson: You say God was Horrible to include the slaying of men and women and yet the humans whom you prefer to God also have done that at times and on a far bigger scale than God ever did. The Nazi's holocaust murdered possibly 10 million men, women, children; but those recorded as slain in the Old Testament do not come to a million, and for all you know God had those in the Bible slain for unspeakable acts against their own children like putting them into the arms of a metal idol, heating it red-hot and slowly burning them to death.

  
  Well, you see in this day and age we know that ethnic cleansing, genocide and butchering women in children is horrible crimes no matter who does it. I am sorry that you have to excuse your God by trying to refer to mere humans also being guilty of such atrocities. Isn’t this God supposed to be soo much better then man? Don’t you see how hopeless it is when you even stoop to the tactics of comparing the Nazi holocaust to the genocide of the Old Testamant arguing that God killed less people then the nazi’s? You try to excuse God’s behavior towards pregnant women and children because they belonged to a brutal people? What logic and reasoning do we see here? So God is no better than humans?

  anewperson: Finally, you really trip over yourself, Norm, when you say you have not used filthy language and then say the very words you did use. Which also again shows that you are not following logic and reasoning so much as emotionalizing and trying to cover it up. Now I leave it to the readers who can scroll up and down this page as to which of us is logical and reasonable in presentation.
  If you want to waste our time with debate instead of join us in simply praising Bill Bowen and victims like Erica Rodriguez for having stood up, then you are sadly misleading yourself in a waste of your time and ours.

  Cover up what dear? I have asked you some questions that you are so obviously unable to address so you have to bluster and splutter and try to change the subject the best you can. Instead of answering simple questions you attack me for “filthy” language and dream up some silly idea that I am emotional and not logic. If you call the drivel you have presented above logical and reasonable I am sorry for you. You have still not produced any example where your precious God has helped or prevented one single child from being abused. All we see from you are half baked lame excuses for the horrible deeds God perpetrated as reported in the Bible.

  I have other more direct ways of offering my support for the work Bill and others do to help the Erica’s of this world. If I were a victim of sexual abuse I would be offended if someone came bleating about God and his help. I would wonder where this God was when I as a helpless little girl was abused week after week for many years. Where was this LOVING God then? Superstition and dreams belonging in la la land, isn’t what victims of sexual abuse needs. That’s what got them into the problems in the first place.

  Norm.
• 

  Derrick

  Superstition and dreams belonging in la la land, isn’t what victims of sexual abuse needs. That’s what got them into the problems in the first place.

  Although I agree that superstition has no place in the life of Christians, you are so wrong about "dreams belonging in la la land"! Dreams are EXACTLY what victims of sexual abuse needs the most to endure through and ultimately triumph over their losses.

  Dreams come true; without that possibility, nature would not incite us to have them.
  -John Updike

  If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them.
  -Henry David Thoreau

  Before you hit the road, Norm, open up, say ahhh, and swallow one more loving spoon full of truth...

  Among the repulsions of atheism for me has been its drastic uninterestingness as an intellectual position. Where was the ingenuity, the ambiguity, the humanity (in the Harvard sense) of saying that the universe just happened to happen and that when we're dead we're dead?
  -John Updike

  There. Now swallow. Don't spit it out.

  Derrick

  To see a World in a Grain of Sand
  And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
  Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
  And Eternity in an hour.

  -- William Blake (Auguries of Innocence)
• 

  Norm

  Although I agree that superstition has no place in the life of Christians, you are so wrong about "dreams belonging in la la land"!

  Christianity is BASED on superstition Rick. People who believe that women get pregnant without sex and fantasize about angels and demons are extremely superstitious.

  Norm