How do we identify the true Born Again Christyian's?

by wannabe 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • wannabe
    wannabe

    How do we indentify the true Born Again Christian's?

    As far as my understanding, the majority of Religious Christendom, will tell you that they are all Born again Christian's! But the question is, are they really, or are they not getting the true sense of the Holy Writings, and their reasoning on this matter, is seriously flawed? And they may not be born again at all. How would we, as individuals, know one way or the other, whether they were, or not? There certainly must be a way to determine whether they are, or not.

    I feel it safe to say, the Bible can clear up this matter, with little or no trouble at all. What did Jesus himself have to tell us about this particular Bible Subject. Note his words on this: "Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born from Water and Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. What has been born from the flesh is flesh, and what has beem born from the Spirit is Spirit. Do not marvel because I told you, you people must be born again. The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So is everyone that has been born from the Spirit." {John 3:5-8} Now, we cannot see the wind, but as Jesus had said, we can hear the sound of it, and see, or experience. its effects, can we not?

    Assume we are at a Congegation meeting, and various ones are making claim that they are Born again Chsistian's. Should we not look for some visible display, that would prove that they really are? Since we would know when the wind was blowing, perhaps caught in a violent Wind Storm, watching the Trees bent over, and the leaves flying about, there would be no doubt in our minds that the wind was blowing even though we cannot see it, with our literal eye-sight. In similar fashion, one Born of the Spirit, would manifest certain characteristics, that would indentify, him/her that they truly were Born again Christian's. Only they, though, would know for a fact, that they were, or not, just as those, who were not Born again would not know where the wind comes from or where it is going.

    Jesus contrasted being born from the flesh, as opposed to being born of the Spirit, of which birth, Jesus was the first to be born of the Spirit, being as he was, 'first in all things. ' {Colossians 1:18} Peter explains how being born of the Spirit was accomplished in the case of Jesus: "Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sins. a righteous [person] for unrighteous ones, that he might lead you to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the Spirit." {1 Peter 3:18} So, in the case of Jesus, in order for him to be born again, he had to die in the flesh, in order to be raised to life in the Spirit, for immortal Spirit Life in the Heavenly Spirit Realm.Thereby becoming the first to be born again. Paul gives us some idea about what transpired here in the case of Jesus, in his following words: "Never-the-less someone might say: "How are the dead to be raised up?" Yes with what sort of Body are they coming?" You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies." ...And there are heavenly bodies , and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort."... So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption it is raised up in incorruption. it is sown in dishonor, it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised up in power. It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a Spiritual body. if there is a physical body, there is also a Spiritual one. ... "The first Man Adam became a living soul, the Last Adam became a life giving Spirit." The first Man is out of the earth and made of dust, the second Man is out of heaven. As the one made of dust is, so those made of dust are also; and as the heavenly [is] so those who are heavenly [are] also. And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one." {1 Corinthians 15:35-49} Paul's discussion here evolves around the first resurrection.

    Now, the question is, who are the WE Paul is making reference to here? He will go on to further explain that: "Look! I tell you a sacred secret; we shall not all fall asleep [in death] but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the Trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and

    this which is mortal must put on immortality, then the saying will take place that is written" "Death is swallowed up forever." "Death where is your victory? Death where is your sting?" {1 Corinthians 15:51-54}

    As I continue with this, I will go on to show, that by telling us, that, that, which is 'Mortal must put on immortality,' Paul is drawing a definite line of demarcation; which I will go on to explain.

    Notice, now, the words of Jesus to his Twelve Apostle's: "However, you are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials; and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me for a Kingdom, that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on Thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel." {Luke 22:28-30}

    These were the ones, Paul tells us, that were "first to hope in the Christ." {Ephesians 1:12-14} These were all 'sealed with the promised Holy Spirit' for immortal life in the Heavenly Spirit realm. Some also from among the Nations would also be included, with those to inherit immortality. {Acts 15:14} {Ephesians 3:5,6} {Acts 10:44,45;11:15}

    Paul gives us this further information, on those that were 'first to hope in the Christ:' "Now we know that God makes all his works cooperate together for the good of those who love God,

    those who are the ones called according to his purpose; because those whom gave his first recognition he also forordained to be patterned after the image of his Son, that he might be the first born among many Brothers." So, if the expression, "Born Again Christian," must be used, it must first apply to the Son of God, Jesus Christ; as well as, to his 'MANY BROTHERS!" But you can only apply that to them, after they experience the first resurrection. Which to this day, has not occured, but will later.

    The question remains, now, how many Brothers? Jesus will give us some idea, about that mumber, in these following words of his: "Have no fear,

    LITTLE FLOCK , the Father has approved of giving you the Kingdom." {Luke 12:32} Next, Jesus mentions, the definite line of demarcation, Paul drew, in these words: "And I have other sheep, which ARE NOT OF THIS FOLD; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, [under the one} shepherd." {John 10:16} So, there are two destinys. One heavenly! One earthly!

    John explains to us in his Revelation account, by telling us, he 'heard the number given, of the slaves of God that were sealed in their foreheads, as to being 144,000' and he contrasts that number with a 'great unnumbered crowd out of all Nations.' Not mentioned as to being sealed in their foreheads. John, too, sees 'the Lamb standing on Mount Zion and with him, 144000 having the name of Jesus and his Father written on their foreheads." {Revelation 7:1-4,9,10; 14:1}

    We note too, that these 144,000 are all of the first resurrection, experiencing as they have a death like Jesus to become united with him. As worded by Paul: "For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death,

    we shall certainly also be united with him in the likeness of his resurrection." {Romans 6:5} They had to, like Jesus, 'Prove themselves faithful, even to death, and I will give you the Crown of Life." {Revelation 2:10} Then, John tells us: "And they sing a new song, saying: "You are worthy [Jesus} to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every Tribe and Tongue and People and Nation, and you made them to be a Kingdom and Priests to our God, and they are to rule as Kings over the earth." {Revelation 5:9,10} John continues: "Happy and Holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be Priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as Kings for the Thousand years." {Revelation 20:6} It will now be as Jesus had stated: "In fact, neither can they die anymore , for they are like the Angels, and they are God's Children by being Children of the resurrection." {Luke 20:36} All of these have come off as World Conquerers, like their Master, and about that, John tells us: "Let the one who has an ear hear what the Spirit says to the congregations: He that conquers will by no means be harmed by the second death." {John 16:33} {Revelation 2:11;3:21}

    Do not let this expression, 'they will be

    Priests to our God' go by unnoticed, because it is essential we grasp the full meaning of those words. Paul will explain exactly why that is the case, for note what he tells us at Hebrews 5:1-10 specifically verses 4 and 5 speaking about the appointing of a High Priest, he tells us: "Also a Man takes this honor, not of his own accord, but only when he is called by God, just as Aaron also [was]." Not even the Christ could choose that honor for himself as Paul's words next reveal: "So too, the Christ did not glorify himself by becoming a High Priest but [was glorified by him] who spoke with reference to him: "You are my Son; I, today, have become your Father. Just as it says also in another place: "You are a Priest forever according to the manner of Mel-chiz'e-dek." Verse 10 ... "because he has been specifically called by God a High Priest according to the manner of Mel-chiz'e-dek."

    Religious Christendom, would appear to choose of their own volition to be Born Again Christian's, completely ignoring the fact, that only Jehovah can do the calling and choosing of these ones. They appear to be unaware that there is a scriptural procedure, to follow, for the calling and choosing of these Born Again Christian's, which, quite clearly, they have no knowledge of. Some may just be wondering, what that procedure is, quite understandably. To begin explaining this procedure, we might look at a scripture very familiar to all of us at John 14:6 which tells us: "

    I am the WAY , the TRUTH, and the LIFE, no one comes to the Father but by Me."

    That is the first hurdle, we must get over, but not exactly all that easy to get over, as Jesus will futher explain: "No Man can come to me

    unless the Father who sent me, DRAWS HIM; and I will resurrect him in the last day." {John 6:44} Now, was the Father to be unwilling to draw someone to his Son, that one would never be Born Again, or much of anything else either, for that matter. The reason being, when the Father does draw one to his Son, the Son in turn, requests of the Father for the Holy Spirit to be given to the one who is drawn, the Spirit of the Truth, to be with this one forever. That will teach the one drawn all things, even that which is to come. {John 14:15-17} {John 16:13}

    We remember, Jesus said, unless one is born from Water and Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God. What is the significance of Water, in this case? Was Jesus talking about literal Water, or was there another meaning to his words? Notice what he told the Samaritan Woman at the well-side: "Whoever drinks from the Water that I will give him will never get thirsty at all, but the Water that I will give him will become in him

    a fountain of water bubbling up to impart everlasting life." Now, we know for a fact, that literal Water could never possibly impart everlasting life; so Jesus had something else in mind, when he said, Water, and Spirit, and Jesus himself will inform us exactly what that was at John 7:38,39: "He that puts Faith in me, just as the scripture has said, 'Out from his inmost parts streams of Living Water will flow.' However, he said this concerning the Spirit which those who put faith in him were about to receive; for as yet, there was no Spirit because Jesus had not yet been glorified."

    Now, we must, determine, what this Living Water really is, and we notice, that Jesus has as much as told us, that, this particular Water, works in conjunction, or combination, with the Holy Spirit, to impart, everlasting life. Now, think about this, for a moment; exactly by what means did Jesus tell us that we attain to everlasting life? Recall his words at John 17:3 where, in prayer to his Father, he uttered these following words: "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ." So, it is this Knowledge of the Father and his Son, that puts us all on this road to everlasting life, it is the knowledge that bubbles up to impart this life, is this living Water, is it not; and how do we gain this knowledge? How does the Holy Spirit enter into this to cause this living Water, this knowledge, to bubble up to impart everlasting life? Let's now examine the workings of the Holy Spirit, to ascertain exactly how it works on us as a teacher, that fills us with this life saving knowlege, or, if you will, living water.

    First, we must consider the source of the Holy Spirit, and Acts 2:33 will inform us all of just what that source is, and how it came about: "Therefore because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised Holy Spirit from the Father, he has poured out this which you see and hear." So, from the first Century and forward, Jesus has been put in control of Jehovah's main principle teaching instrument, the Holy Spirit. This brings us back to the ones who are drawn by Jehovah to his Son, at which point, they receive of the Holy Spirit, upon the request of Jesus, and from that point on are enabled to begin taking in this living Water, or knowledge, that will eventually bubble up to impart everlasting life.

    It would be beneficial to look closely at just how the Holy Spirit works on these ones drawn by Jehovah to his Son, and consider the process involved that enables them to receive of the Holy Spirit. Looking at John 14:15-17 we will learn how it is, they are able to receive the Holy Spirit; Notice this now: "If you love me, you will observe my commandments; and

    I will request the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever the Spirit of the Truth, which the World cannot receive, because it neither beholds it nor knows it. You know it because it remains with you and is in you." Notice now verses 25, 26 of this same Chapter. On the first hand, speaking to those he made his Fathers word known to them in the first Century, we read: "While remaining with you I have spoken these things to you. But the helper, the Holy Spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you." {John 15:15} John 15:26,27 takes this a step further, with these words: "When the helper arrives that I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of the Truth, which proceeds from the Father, that one will bear witness about me; and you, in turn, are to bear witness {about me] because you have been with me from when I began." So, as John tells us in the Revelation account: "And the dragon grew wrathful at the Woman, and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her seed, who observe the commandments of God, and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus." To continue with just how much is taught these ones by means of the Holy Spirit; "However, when that one arrives, the Spirit of the Truth, he will guide you into ALL THE TRUTH, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears, he will speak, and he will declare to you the things coming." So, not only would they know all of the Truth, they would even gain knowledge of future events.

    The holy Spirit, we learned, was with them, and in them forever, and the Apostle John will aid us in getting the sense of that, with these words of his: "And as for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you,

    and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but, as the anointing from him is teaching you about all things, and is true, and is no lie, and just as it has taught you, remain in union with him." {1 John 2:27} The Apostle Paul will buttress that, with his next words: "I put you on notice Brothers, that the good news that was declared by me as good news is not something human; for neither did I receive it from Man, nor was I taught it [by Man] except through revelation by Jesus Christ." {Galatians 1:11,12} ..." That by way of a Revelation the sacred secret was made known to me." {Ephesians 3:1-3}

    In similar fashion, the Apostle John received the entire 22 Chapters of his Revelation by the same means; from the Heavenly Spirit Realm. {Revelation 1:1,2} Paul will sum all of this up, with his words at 1 Corinthians 2:9,10 where he tells us: "But just as it is written: Eye`has not seen and ear has not heard, neither have there been conceived in the heart of Man the things that God has prepared for those who love him.

    For it is to us God has revealed them through his Spirit, for the Spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God."

    It should be noted at this point, that both the 'Little Flock,' as well, the 'other sheep, not of that fold,' must take in the life giving living water in the same fashion. Both classes must have knowledge of Jehovah and his Son to gain life. On the one hand, the Heavenly Calling, 'the little flock' gain immortal Spirit life in the heavens; while the other sheep have the opportunity for everlasting life on this earth. {Psalm 37:29} The difference between the two classes, is, that the 'little flock' are all partakers of the 'first resurrection,' to immortal Spirit life in the Heavens, and as such, become God's Children, through the first resurrection. Which Jesus commented on in the following:

    "In fact,

    neither can they die anymore , for they are like the Angels, and they are God's Children by being Children of the resurrection." {Luke 20:36} These Childen, so described are true Born again Christian's, but not until they experience the first resurrection, it is then they become God's Children, but not before they die and are resurrected, as their master did, so must they must do. Up to this point in time, only one can make a legitimate claim to being born again, and that one is the Christ, the first to die and experience the first resurrection. Now, it's merely a matter of logical reasoning, is it not? When the heavenly calling die in the flesh and then, after that, are resurrected back to life again; only now, as Spirit Angel Son's of God; so they are re-born again in the Spirit, and become, Born Again. But never while living would any of them ever make claim to being Born Again Christian's. The reason being that they would know, they must remain faithful even to death, before ever receiving their Crowns of life, as Spirit Son's of God.

    So, as I said at the out-set of this writing, Religious Christendom's reasoning is seriously flawed, and they are definitely not getting the sense of the Holy Writings; otherwise, they would never make the claim that they are Born Again Christian's, when those who really are born again Christian's, would not do so themselves while still living in the flesh. The true Born Again Christian's would know better than to tell anyone that, even before they had been resurrected to heavenly life, and become then, Children of God, and at that point become

    re-born. Look again, at what Jesus said about being born again:

    "Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is Born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God." Unless anyone is Born from Water and Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God." {John 3:3,5}

    We know that this is not talking about the earthly sphere of God's Kingdom, the reason being, those who inherit the earth, do not have immortality, they merely have the opportunity for everlasting life, on this earth. These ones can and do die again, evidenced by the great crowd of misled ones at the end of the thousand year period, who end up along with satan the devil, being thrown into the lake of fire, and eternally destroyed. {Revelation 20:7-10} {Psalm 37:29}

    No! This is talking about those ones chosen directly by Jehovah God, for immortal Spirit Life in the Heavenly Spirit Realm, to reign with the Christ, as Priests of God and of the Christ for the thousand years. These are the ones the second death has no authority over, they cannot be harmed by it, or die anymore. They have immortality. They, like their master, the Christ, are part of the first resurrection; earned by their faithfulness to death, as required. {Revelation 2:10} The other Sheep mentioned by Jesus, have no part in the first resurrection, nor are any of them King Priests, to reign with the Christ for the Thousand year period. They are merely subjects of the Heavenly Government. That will reign over them. But only those Born again by Water and Spirit, who through the first resurrection, after dying, are raised to Heavenly life, having undergone a transformation, from a fleshly body to a Spirit Body, become, at that time,

    Born again , as Children of God. The point being, no one today, who is not born of Water and Spirit, will not, as Jesus said, enter into the Kingdom of God. But the evidence that they are born again, will be seen in their comprehensive knowledge of the Holy Writings. The Problem with that though, is, both classes will be guided and directed by the Holy Spirit, so both classes will have a tremendous amount of knowledge, and it will be difficult to tell who is of the heavenly calling, and who is not. Only the ones that really are, will know for certain that they are. Paul will explain just how that comes about: "For all who are led by God's Spirit, these are God's Son's. For you did not receive a Spirit of Slavery causing fear again, but you received a Spirit of adoption as Son's by which Spirit we cry out" "Abba," Father!" The Spirit itself bears witness with our Spirit that we are God's Children. If, then we are Children , we are also heirs; heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together." {Romans 8:14-17} So, they would know the hope that was set before them, according to Paul's Words at Ephesians 1:15-23--

    Jesus indicated in the Parable of the Sheep and the Goat's when the separating work is done, that neither the Sheep-like ones, nor the Goat-like ones, recognized the 'least' of the Brothers of the Christ, for both classes are found to be saying, after Jesus had told them, "In-as-much as you have done, or not done, to the least of these Brother's of mine, you have done, or not done it, to me.' They reply to him:

    "When did we see you?" So, they were not aware, they had been dealing with the anointed Brother's of the Christ, that what they had failed to do for them, or to them, they had done, or not done to the Christ himself. That error gets the Goat's thrown into the lake of fire, prepared for the devil and his Angels. {Matthew 25:31-46} But in that parable, all of the true Born Again Christian's are with the Christ, evidenced by his Words to the Goat-like Ones; "The Least of these my Brother's!"

    The very fact, that the majority of Religious Christendom, identifies themselves as "Born Again Christian's," even before the first resurrection begins, {not that they would be included in it anyway} puts them all on the left hand of the Christ, with the goat-like ones, and we all know, the fate of them, do we not? "And these will depart into everlasting cutting off," but, only, 'the righteous ones into everlasting life,' on this earth, as promised! {Psalm 37:29}

    Now you know, how to identify, the True Born Again Christian's! Wannabe

  • Ding
    Ding

    Does any of this make sense to anyone besides Wannabe?

    Just asking.

  • wannabe
    wannabe

    Ding!

    It will make a great of sense, to those, Granted to understand the Holy Writings. Perhaps the reason that you do not understand it, is because you are not granted to understand it. Give that some serious thought! The following as well! {Matthew 13:10-15} Wannabe

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR
    How do we identify the true Born Again Christyian's?

    They know how to spell 'Christians.'

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    Does any of this make sense to anyone besides Wannabe?

    Just asking.

    I had to stop reading after the first few sentences. Made me dizzy.

  • PEC
    PEC

    10 ways to identify the true Born Again Christians

    10. When driving, they cut you off, then flip you off, for being in their way.

    9. They put, crosses, fish, fish eating fish with legs, children kneeling at crosses, children with halos kneeling at crosses... on their SUVs, while they drive around, at 20 MPH over the speed limit, destroying the planet.

    8. They put, Jesus sighs on the side of the road, everywhere.

    7. They put, crosses on the top of every hill.

    6. They spend millions of dollars, on ads full of lies, to pass gay marriage ban laws.

    5. They say "Thank you, Jesus" for everything.

    4. They would rather have the mother die, than allow any abortion.

    3. They have had the Dictionary banned in some schools; because, their children were looking up dirty words.

    2. They think their excrement does not stink.

    1. They vote Republican; because, they think, they should not, have to pay any taxes.

    ©; 2010 PEC

  • designs
    designs

    What if everything you have been taught about being Born Again was a westernized version and not what the Rabbi Jesus figure was really conversing with a Jew about.

    Solve the issues, how are these related to a Jew and being Born Again-

    Kol Nidrei to Ne'ila

    Yom Kippur and the 10 Days of Turning

    The clothing and removal of the Kittel and the Tallit

    Sounding the Shofar and the prayer- Al Het

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    : How do we identify the true Born Again Christyian

    Same "true believer" dogmatism, different bullshit.

    Farkel

  • carpediem
    carpediem

    Hi Wannabe

    Any God worth his salt would not write a book for his human creation and write it in such a way that you need to be 'granted ' to understand it.

    Here here Farkel, well said.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    We DON'T "identify" anyone, itis not for US to decided who is or who is not a Christian, born again or otherwise.

    It is up to God through Jesus Christ, they are the Judge of such matters.

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