No, Virgina, God doesn't use Paradoxes.

moshe

BelievingXjw asked me yesterday, in response to my comment that it didn't make sense that God would allow paradoxes in the Bible.

Moshe, Why would it not make sense that, "God would allow paradoxes to happen," ?

my reply:

Luke 22:21-22 (New International Version)

21-But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table. 22-The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed, but woe to that man who betrays him."

Jesus knew Judas would betray him, yet if Judas didn't betray him, then Jesus couldn't fulfill his alleged mission to be sacrificed, as the lamb that saves the world, so actually, Judas was doing God's will, which means he should be blessed not cursed. If we follow this example to it's logical conclusion, it means that, if you follow God's spiritual direction, do His will,in the end you can be damned for doing what God told you to do!!!!! Which is a contradiction as the Bible says, God is Truth and He is a God of Love, which should mean that God could have found a way to sacrifice Jesus that didn't require Judas to betray Jesus, which ultimately led to him hanging himself in an act of suicide.

So, if God allows paradoxes in his worship of Him, it means that Man can never know what God wants him to do, or understand what God really means. Adam and Eve must have figured that out when they didn't die on the day they ate of the fruit from the tree of knowledge, which is what Satan said all along, wasn't it?

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The Bible is full of paradoxes and this is an oxymoron of sorts for humans who call the Bible, God's Word. If the God of the Bible can't prevent a paradox from happening, then what does that tells us? I hope I get many answers- Terry, What saye yea?

Ding

Many such issues have been discussed and debated by theologians for centuries, so there is a great deal of literature on these subjects if anyone cares to read it.

JWs tend to be unaware of any of this because (1) the WTS directs them not to read any non-WT religious literature, (2) the WTS keeps JWs focusing on such things as holidays, the 144,000, and the like, and (3) the WTS doesn't like topics that are beyond their ability to fathom or explain.

As one example, many Christian theologians believe that Adam and Eve were created with a spirit that is different from the body and soul and that their spirits died the moment they first sinned. As their descendants, we are born with dead spirits which is why Jesus said we must be reborn spiritually (John 3:3). Whether you think this makes any sense isn't my point. My point is that because of its dogmatism and control, the WTS isn't going to allow JWs to discuss such ideas or even learn about them. (Imagine what would have happened to you if you had asked such questions or discussed such ideas at the Hall.)

moshe

btt

sir82

Jesus knew Judas would betray him, yet if Judas didn't betray him, then Jesus couldn't fulfill his alleged mission to be sacrificed, as the lamb that saves the world, so actually, Judas was doing God's will, which means he should be blessed not cursed.

Have you read the "Gospel of Judas"?

It solves this problem quite nicely!

Of course, its Gnostic emphasis would be none too pleasing to JWs, nor any other Bible fundy for that matter.....

Mad Sweeney

Many of the Gnostic concepts make a lot more sense than Fundy doctrine.

I love the whole Judas-as-scapegoat idea. Not saying I believe it, just that it is cool literature compared to the regular boring old Bible.

NeonMadman

Jesus knew Judas would betray him, yet if Judas didn't betray him, then Jesus couldn't fulfill his alleged mission to be sacrificed, as the lamb that saves the world, so actually, Judas was doing God's will, which means he should be blessed not cursed. If we follow this example to it's logical conclusion, it means that, if you follow God's spiritual direction, do His will,in the end you can be damned for doing what God told you to do!!!!!

I don't see a contradiction here. The Gospels never say that God TOLD Judas to betray Jesus. Jesus' betrayal was within God's plan, and someone certainly had to do it, but that doesn't mean that God endorsed the act, only that God can cause even sin to somehow contribute to his purposes. For example, when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem, he wasn't doing it because God told him to. Rather, he was pursuing his own selfish agenda, but God caused it to work for the punishmnet of Judah, which was something he had purposed to do. Later, Babylon came under judgment because of its actions.

Likewise with Judas - he wasn't betraying Jesus out of obedience to God, but for his own selfish reasons. Nonetheless, God is sovereign and can make all things work for his purposes, even when that is not the intent of the actor.

There may be some theological paradoxes in the Bible, but this doesn't at all strike me as one of them.

notverylikely

Likewise with Judas - he wasn't betraying Jesus out of obedience to God, but for his own selfish reasons. Nonetheless, God is sovereign and can make all things work for his purposes, even when that is not the intent of the actor.

Actually, that creates a bigger issue, IMNSHO. Since God's original plan for was Adam and Eve to live forever and populate the earth, eating one piece of fruit thwarted that, caused untold suffering and led to god letting his own son die.

lovelylil2

I agree with Neon on this one.

If you look at the biblical accounts carefully (the gospels) you will see that Judas did not feel the same about Jesus as the other disciples. The disciples addressed Jesus as Lord but Judas called him Rabbi. also Jesus rebuked Judas for being greedy (John 12:1-8). There are other hints in the gospels too that Judas lacked a close relationship with Jesus. Possibly he never considered Jesus as really being the Messiah?

But like Neon said, although Jesus was going to be betrayed, it did not HAVE to be Judas. Interestingly too, the bible says that "Satan entered into him", meaning Judas, before Jesus betrayal. This could have different meanings depending on your personal belief in who or what Satan is but clearly Judas had wrong motivations regarding Jesus.

So I also do not think this is a paradox. Lilly

notverylikely

Interestingly too, the bible says that "Satan entered into him", meaning Judas, before Jesus betrayal.

So Satan was doing God's will?

lovelylil2

notverylikely,

There are different views on Satan. Some believe "Satan" means any spirit (or attitude) that opposes God, while others believe it means a certain opposer of God - Satan the Devil, a fallen Angel. So I guess the answer to whether or not Satan was doing God's will depends on how you view him. In addition one could argue that God "foreknew" That Satan (his opposer) was going to manipulate someone to betray his son.

There are lots of angles you could look at with this.

But since Judas ultimately could have chosen not to betray Christ, it is not really a paradox.

Interesting topic though. Lilly

No, Virgina, God doesn't use Paradoxes.

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