What is the most secularly acclaimed Bible translation?

by sabastious 86 Replies latest jw friends

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Well, this goes back to my earlier thought about BeDuhn. His project of comparing the NWT vis-a-vis other translations wrt to bias was a very subjective enterprise. He selected which features to compare and his determination of bias was entirely dependent on his own opinion of how certain texts, particularly very controversial ones, are supposed to be understood. His interpretations collectively become the rubric against which bias in modern translations are to be measured. A different person with a different background and training would come up with quite a different stance on the same texts. Since there is room for disagreement and doubt across scholarship wrt many of these controversial passages, I hardly find BeDuhn's interpretations the most reliable standard for assessing bias, particularly in cases where I don't agree with BeDuhn's own assessment. That is why I feel it is more objective to assess bias in the production of the NWT by tracing its unique or uncommon renderings to models already attested in the literature some time prior to the translation work. This shows that the translation choices made in the NWT reflect particular beliefs and interpretations already adopted by the Watchtower Society; they represent a theological Tendenz peculiar to Jehovah's Witnesses.

    I was also disappointed by BeDuhn's discussion of specific passages, which struck me as rather superficial. So for instance he says that adding "[other]" in brackets in Colossians 1:15-20 is "accurate" and "implied in the Greek" and thus does not represent an example of bias (p. 87). I hardly think it's as clear as that. His discussion mainly follows the Watchtower justification of the NWT rendering but doesn't address various grammatical issues posed by the text, such as: (1) the logical force of causal hoti (i.e. it is Jesus' role in the creation of "all things" that makes him the "firstborn of all creation", not his own presumed creation), (2) the scope of pas "all" (which would include Jesus in v. 15 but then suddenly exclude him in v. 16-18, such that panta in v. 16-18 does not complete a set that already includes Jesus), and so forth. And BeDuhn supports the NWT's rendering by referring to other texts whether "other" is implied (Luke 11:42, 21:29) without noting the important ways in which these differ from the wording of the hymn in Colossians. So for instance, in Luke 11:42 mint and rue are included in the set of "garden herbs," pan occurs to complete the set. But in Colossians 1:15, if we would treat "firstborn of all creation" as a partitive (as the NWT does, which motivates the adding of "[other]"), pasés would include Jesus within the set of "all creation" and then suddenly, inexplicably, panta excludes him from the set in v. 16-18. Panta in v. 16-18 does not complete a set that already includes Jesus; rather, it has to denote a new set that excludes him. At least those are problems I see in my own reading of the text.

  • Wonderment
    Wonderment

    wannabefree:

    I think the translator may have his own views of the NWT, and may not be all that good. I think what he meant was probably that the NWT is hated or considered a-no-subject in his religious world, whatever that may be, and he does not want to compromise himself somehow before his peers.

    My experience though is that although I dislike very much WT tactics, I have grown very fond of the NWT and the Kingdom Interlinear. I don´t think this assesment is based on emotion, but based on my experience and research. I put the translation to the test in the past, and I was pleased with what I found overall, not all, but confident that most criticism of it is based on emotional, and theological reasons, not textual based. I find even that ex JW´s carry a lot of anger and resentment, and would like to see the NWT disappear, much less admit is a good version.

    Brothers here talk about this or that, how the NWT took liberties with a certain scripture, but I find the NWT actually take less liberties with the original text than mainstream versions. I pray that I can stay fair and see the good in people and bible translations. When I go deep into textual studies, I find that the translator[s] of the NWT were very conscious of textual nuances and had deep knowledge overall. It is evident not only in the translated main text, but also, by the judicious use of footnotes which reveal a lot of intellectual depth.

    Many times I find that the NWT translator[s]s had deeper knowledge of textual issues than some of their critics. So I don´t believe at all, as has been stated often that the NWT was done by a committe that couldn´t read the originals. Someone had to. And I wouldn´t be surprised that F. Franz was one instrumental in the work. I heard him personally speak in a few languages with excellent memory to boot. He had full command of the one language other than English that I know well. If he had that command with this other language -self-taught- I have no doubt that he did at least the same with the biblical languages. Please, don´t repeat the infamous Walsh case. I spoke to Ray Franz, and he admitted to me that it was not that he was not capable of reading Hebrew, but that he felt unconfortable with the grilling he was being put through and felt they wanted to ridicule the WT people and chose not to attempt translating what was asked of him. In fact, Ray surprisingly (not being close to his uncle) sounded like he too was troubled by the incessant Walsh case publicity and the twisting of the facts by WT detractors.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Very well put Leo, I have read a few pro and cons for DeBhune's book and cons for outweight the pros and those pointes you mentioned are mentioend as well.

  • Wonderment
    Wonderment

    I personally found Jason D. BeDuhn´s review well done and reflected sound scholarship. I am glad someone had the guts to boldly say it as he saw it. It takes courage to do so, knowing that he would be harshly criticized. I also think he was fair.

    I agree with Leolaia (I think it was her who said it) when she said that focusing on a few scriptures does not prove which is the most accurate translation. But neither are the reviews of countless others who have focused on similar issues. Neither was Colwell´s study years ago of which translations were the most accurate. By the way, the NWT did well in that study, when one takes all those instances of problematic readings. Colwell didn´t have access to the NWT at the time. but I myself took his research and went scripture by scripture to check on the NWT. Later, I found out that others did the same thing.

    Since, we will never be fully happy with studies such as these (they are interesting and insightful) it is up to us to do our own research and try to stay open-minded as possible. The use of Hebrew and Greek concordances are a must to get to the bottom of it. I don´t recommend commentaries much, though I use them sparringly, just to see other people´s viewpoint. I really appreciate all your comments. God bless ya all!

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    I wonder, do you have the NWT interlinear ?

  • Doubting Bro
    Doubting Bro

    Very interesting discussion. Marking for later.

  • Wonderment
    Wonderment

    PSacramento,

    You asked, Do u own the NWT Interlinear? Who was the question addressed to?

    Anyways, personally I do. It has been my favorite bible for many years. It is a gold mine. Of course, I am aware that many ex JWs may disagree with that statement, but I stand by it. As a reviewer once stated, it shows "unusual competence of the Greek language."

    Nowadays, with judicious use of all sorts of bible helps, anyone with some knowledge of the Hebrew and Greek alphabets can do wonders. I am referring to those of us lacking Ph. D´s. Anyone can check anything and everything for accuracy. Formal training is great, but those that haven´t done it can still benefit a great deal from all those bible publications of the last few centuries and some effort on our parts. People before printing came to age didn´t have those helps. And here we are arguing which is better.

    Someone said the Kingdom Interlinear is out of print. The WT Society is on a severe diet, it seems. Whoever owns one, should treasure it, or if someone has one that don´t want it, I´ll take it. I also like Paul R. McReynolds interlinear. It is a very useful book, and it sports a concordance that takes about half the book space. He did a great job. The Concordant interlinear is good too, but more difficult to use, and the print is not as good as the others. I use many bibles for my studies. Usually keep those I mentioned close by and some of the following: Those that have a few versions (the popular evangelical ones and J.B.) within their covers, Young´s Literal Translation, Rotherham for its Empahasized Bible, Byingtons for its fresh, unique renderings, the Message Bible, New American Bible, Diaglott, Apostolic Bible whith Septuagint, 21st Century for its dual literal/free nature, and a few study bibles (NIV, Living T.), Latin Vulgate, etc., plus some bilingual translations such as Valera-King James. I have some others, but those I mentioned get more use.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    So you have the Kingdom interlinear AND the NWT AND you use concordances and you still think the NWT is the choice to go with?

  • Meeting Junkie No More
    Meeting Junkie No More

    I have quite a few Bibles, and maybe off topic here, can't say this one is the most secularly acclaimed. HOWEVER, I find the study notes absolutely intriguing - so many scriptures that didn't make any sense, or had some half-assed explanation given in the pages of the rags are explained finally to my satisfaction! If the scripture is a difficult one to make sense of, the note actually says: 'This is a difficult verse!' It may mean this or that and then they give the various takes on it; so far I've found all the takes plausible and much more thought through than any WT theology.

    I got mine at the second-hand store for $3.99 - real value for money(!) - you may have to pay more but definitely worth a read through!

    The Orthodox Study Bible (New Testament and Psalms) - http://www.amazon.ca/New-King-James-Version-Testament/dp/0718000307

  • MarcusScriptus
    MarcusScriptus

    I actually don’t know exactly which translation my cousin Charlie worked on because, as he tells me, I can only get the information from the copyright holders because of an agreement he has made to remain publicly anonymous.

    But I did some snooping around and I gather he either worked on the NRSV or maybe was a representative of some sort on a Catholic translation either here in the United States or in Canada. Catholics can no longer make translations of the Bible without Protestants on the translation boards, and by the way he has spoken it appears he has some insight as to the problem occurring between the Catholic Biblical Association and the USCCB.

    I do know he has had some contact with the USB and their translation software, although he is an avid Adapt It user, so it is likely it was one of these. He has retired recently, however, so I don’t know much more.

    I also think that Charlie was making reference to the Common English Bible (CEB) in his email and not the ESV as I was under the impression that the ESV had just completed its Apocrypha/Deutero section. The CEB has not, but since it has Roman Catholics on its board, it appears they are about to embark on the same. But then again, I shouldn’t double guess him even if age makes him mix up some things.

    As to his remarks about the New World Translation the answer is “Yes.” Charlie has not only read and studied it, he has had several copies in his library over the years. I believe all he has now is an electronic version (from the Society itself), but I have no idea how he gets what he gets.

    This is a man who has had the privilege of handling facsimiles of Qumran texts. He has shown me proto-Masoretic texts that show that the quotation in Hebrews 1:10 comes from a Psalm that originally has the Tetragrammaton in the oldest versions, was likely one of the places that the LXX used a Tetragrammaton substitute, and has empirical textual data to prove that the Masoretes employed “Lord” in its place. A Hebrew manuscript translation of Hebrews 1:10 contains the name in this spot, and the NWT reference edition has this noted in the footnotes as a “J” mss., but the Witnesses conveniently avoided “restoring” it despite the evidence that even they uncovered.

    This is but one of many horrendous examples of clear misrepresentation of the original texts that he shared with me over the years. So when Charlie referred to it as “anathema,” I personally believe he was well within his field of expertise and authority to do so.

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