How Far Should We Allow Religious Rights to Go?

by sammielee24 17 Replies latest jw friends

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24

    Just curious. I know there has been a lot of debate regarding the mosque in NY, but this incident is in another State. Should she be forced to pay or not? sammieswife

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    Owner could lose condominium: Legal fight on religious grounds cost city $40,000 -- for a $635 tax claim

    Comments

    August 17, 2010 By BOB SEIDENBERG [email protected]

    A family's steadfast refusal to pay a $635.02 special assessment tax for an alley paving project because it violated their religious beliefs has run up an estimated $40,000 in outside legal bills for the city, with no apparent end in sight.

    Padma Rao, of 2246 Sherman Ave., said she plans to keep fighting the judgment, even though the U.S. Supreme Court recently declined for a second time to take her petition for appeal on the case.

    ยป Click to enlarge image Padma Rao (left, with her mother, B.K.) has been involved in a long-running lawsuit with the city of Evanston over an assessment for paving the alley behind their home, and because of a tree that was removed during the project.
    (Brian O'Mahoney/Staff Photographer)

    A city attorney, meanwhile, said the case is now in the hands of Cook County, which could put up the family's condominium unit in a tax sale unless they pay immediately.

    Rao said a court order, entered earlier, vacated a warrant for the city to collect the tax.

    Rao, with her 72-year-old mother, B.K., have defended themselves against the city's lawsuit to levy the tax on the 2007 paving of the alley.

    Rao and her mother fought removal of a tree in the project, saying the action ran counter to the basic precepts of their Hindu religion. Hinduism forbids the needless killing of any living thing and also requires practitioners from not participating or acquiescing in such acts, Rao said.

    The tree stood at the exit drive of the condo and served as a kind of a "sentry" to people as they drove away from the premises, Rao and her mother said.

    The city argued in court that the tree was located partially on city property and fell partly on the common area that belonged to the 33-unit Corinthian Condominium Association where Rao resides.

    Moreover, the condominium association gave the city permission to take it down, "so we did," said Tober-Purze. In addition, the tree was in poor health and likely to die anyway, she said.

    Rao said the city arborist had told her that the tree, between 30 and 40 years old, had no infectious diseases and did not pose any public health risk. She said he never mentioned anything about it being in poor health.

    She said well more than 90 percent of the tree's ground volume fell on the condo's land.

    In addition, she said the city's own survey showed that the tree did not obstruct the alley where the paving was to take place, since a utility pole that stood outside where the tree formerly stood was left undisturbed in the project.

    Rao said the makeup of the condominium board was in dispute at the time. She said the board was not in control of such decisions anyway -- with state law giving unit holders individual rights on such matters.

    Another possible option

    She argued that city officials should have filed for eminent domain in Cook County Circuit Court if they wanted to take down the tree. Officials would have had to prove it was necessary to cut down the tree, she said.

    Records show the city has spent close to $40,000 in legal bills after turning to outside counsel in April 2008.

    Tober-Purze said Pao's legal remedies are exhausted, with the Supreme Court declining to take up the case for a second time.

    "What happens next, sadly, is she could lose her property in a scavenger sale if she doesn't pay the assessment immediately," said Tober-Purze. "They go after people for unpaid taxes, and this concerns a tax on the property."

    Further, Tober-Purze said the city offered to pay her assessment before all legal costs were incurred, but she said Rao insisted on fighting the case on principle.

    Rao said the offer came long after she had filed her appeal and incurred substantial costs.

    Rather than paying her off and making her the "middle man" in the tree's ultimate demise, "the city could have simply paid the amount and disposed of the judgment," Rao said, "so I wouldn't have to be involved."

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    She's a nut case. This has nothing to do with religion.

  • mindmelda
    mindmelda

    No futher than we can throw them.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    I don't know if I agree with you, dear JeffT (peace to you!)... and it doesn't look like this is "about" religion, at this point, dear SammiesWife (peace to you, as well). Let's take look:

    Padma Rao (left, with her mother, B.K.) has been involved in a long-running lawsuit with the city of Evanston over an assessment for paving the alley behind their home

    Okay, if all of the condo owners whose property includes that easement, then the assessment MIGHT be lawful. Let's see...

    and because of a tree that was removed during the project.


    What does the tree have to do with it?

    A city attorney, meanwhile, said the case is now in the hands of Cook County, which could put up the family's condominium unit in a tax sale unless they pay immediately.

    Well, two things, here: it is has a mortgage, good luck with that tax sale... and... a court most probably won't let that happen but give the family time to pay. Otherwise, it may be considered unconscionable...

    Rao said a court order, entered earlier, vacated a warrant for the city to collect the tax.

    WHOA! Wait a minute! If a court ORDERED the tax warranted VACATED... on what authority is the City still pursuing it? Methinks there's more here than meets the eye, particularly since the City has already expended $40,000. $40,000!!! Nope, something's not right...

    Rao, with her 72-year-old mother, B.K., have defended themselves against the city's lawsuit to levy the tax on the 2007 paving of the alley.

    Doesn't say "is defending." Says "HAS defended." Yet, the City is pushing the matter. Hmmmmm... I think I know why, but we'll get to that below...

    Rao and her mother fought removal of a tree in the project, saying the action ran counter to the basic precepts of their Hindu religion. Hinduism forbids the needless killing of any living thing and also requires practitioners from not participating or acquiescing in such acts, Rao said.

    And this is their religious right...

    The tree stood at the exit drive of the condo and served as a kind of a "sentry" to people as they drove away from the premises, Rao and her mother said.

    Sounds a bit "sentimental," but... whatever floats their boat...

    The city argued in court that the tree was located partially on city property and fell partly on the common area that belonged to the 33-unit Corinthian Condominium Association where Rao resides.

    Wait a minute... partly on City property... and partly on the COMMON AREA... of the Condo Association??? How then is RAO being levied the tax assessment???

    Moreover, the condominium association gave the city permission to take it down, "so we did," said Tober-Purze. In addition, the tree was in poor health and likely to die anyway, she said.

    Wait. If the Condo Association gave the PERMISSION... then shouldn't the Condo Association be levied the TAX?? Could THAT be why the court vacated the warrant against RAO???

    Rao said the city arborist had told her that the tree, between 30 and 40 years old, had no infectious diseases and did not pose any public health risk. She said he never mentioned anything about it being in poor health.

    Which is important, given the City's stated reason for removing the tree. Anyone ask HIM, yet?

    She said well more than 90 percent of the tree's ground volume fell on the condo's land.

    Meaning HER land... meaning they also needed HER permission... or... it would constitute a TAKING...

    In addition, she said the city's own survey showed that the tree did not obstruct the alley where the paving was to take place, since a utility pole that stood outside where the tree formerly stood was left undisturbed in the project.

    Uh-ohhhh... sounds like the City didn't want to deal with paving around a tree... and the Condo Association didn't care... but someone left out tht this might constitute a taking... whereby Ms. Rao should have been COMPENSATED... which might be why the City is spending SO much on this case... because they BLEW it, LEGALLY... and now may owe her even more, including her legal fees... because some knuckle head can't admit that he/her and his/her crew/staff didn't follow legal protocol...

    Rao said the makeup of the condominium board was in dispute at the time. She said the board was not in control of such decisions anyway -- with state law giving unit holders individual rights on such matters.

    I'm thinking she's right...

    Another possible option She argued that city officials should have filed for eminent domain in Cook County Circuit Court if they wanted to take down the tree. Officials would have had to prove it was necessary to cut down the tree, she said.

    And she's right. And, most probably they MISSED that step... because the Condo Association told them, "Sure, g'head," and rather than compiling such proof (which they probably couldn't, based on the arborist's report) AND finding out who the TRUE responsibile party was... they did just go ahead... and then later found out (oops!), it was Ms. Rao... and that they had missed a couple/few vital steps because, after all, it was a crummy 'ol tree and who cared anywho... but now, rather than look like the incompetent boobs we ARE...

    Records show the city has spent close to $40,000 in legal bills after turning to outside counsel in April 2008.

    Will spend the tax-payers money on fighting the matter because we could NEVER admit that we really did drop the ball and, even so, she's out of line because, well, because we NEEDED that tree to go... and that's our story and we're stickin' TO it...

    Tober-Purze said Pao's legal remedies are exhausted, with the Supreme Court declining to take up the case for a second time.

    Because it really isn't a high impact matter... hugely visible matter... involving millions of dollars and affecting thousands of people, so...

    "What happens next, sadly, is she could lose her property in a scavenger sale if she doesn't pay the assessment immediately," said Tober-Purze. "They go after people for unpaid taxes, and this concerns a tax on the property."

    To which Ms. Rao should respond, "Well, since the Condo Association gave you permission... and you claim it was on City and common are property, then the City and the Condo Association should PAY"... which is what she/her legal counsel should have been arguing once the tree was removed...

    Further, Tober-Purze said the city offered to pay her assessment before all legal costs were incurred,

    Ah-HAH!! and why would they do THAT??

    but she said Rao insisted on fighting the case on principle.

    That it constitutes a taking (which is why it would go to the U.S. Supreme Court, because it raised a "federal question"... the "taking" of property), which it does and so SHOULD have gone through a proper process with proper compensation (not payment of tax!) offered...

    Rao said the offer came long after she had filed her appeal and incurred substantial costs.

    Which, given how municipalites work and how it takes to get anything done, is most probably true...

    Rather than paying her off and making her the "middle man" in the tree's ultimate demise, "the city could have simply paid the amount and disposed of the judgment," Rao said, "so I wouldn't have to be involved."

    And THERE you have it! The CITY... COULD... have handled the matter on its own, without even INVOLVING Ms. Rao.

    [Shaking head]...

    My next door neighbor wanted to cut down two tall trees... in her backyard! And we received a NOTICE of the HEARING by the City Council to weigh in on it! It was HER tree... fully in HER yard... but a hearing supposedly had to be held (note, we didn't received the notice until a full two weeks after the tree came down, so I never knew whether she jumped the gun or the City was lagging).

    Bottom line: the City blew it all around on this one and should remove the judgment as well as the assessment altogether. They didn't need to "offer" her anything, as they never had her permission... as they never treated her like the owner/party responsible FOR the tree, but treated themselves and the condo association as such.

    Ms. Rao merely said that SHE couldn't give HER permission due to her religious beliefs. So, okay, they circumvented her and used their own property rights, as well as that of the condo association... without "due process" (i.e., a hearing on whether the tree should come down or not).

    She shouldn't pay... they shouldn't be permitted to sell her condo... and they owe her an apology for their haste and resultant incompetence.

    SA, on her own...

  • darkuncle29
    darkuncle29

    "An it harm none, do what ye will."

    I don't think this is about religion, but i think this lady is trying to make it such. If she's Hindu, she believes in reincarnation, so shut up and plant a new tree.

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    Religious freedom should not be allowed to serve as a blind to initiate force, threats of force, or fraud against another. Using it to hide behind in tax situations is a prime example (as long as the taxes are legally collected, that is). Another thing I don't like about "religious freedom" is using it to drive people off their property, force one's way into property, pull off scams of various kinds, or to ruin a business by getting hired based on religious freedom, not being able to do the job because it's against your religion, and then suing the business for firing you.

    And yes, using "religious freedom" is not acceptable when you go and blow things up whenever you want to put a mosque there. How many Christians go and blow things up where they want a church?

  • designs
    designs

    Somewhere in the Human Resources Dept. the right questions weren't asked or the interviewer overlooked some obvious issues.

    A devout Muslim or Hindu woman shouldn't try out for a job at Hooter's....

  • beksbks
    beksbks
    And yes, using "religious freedom" is not acceptable when you go and blow things up whenever you want to put a mosque there. How many Christians go and blow things up where they want a church?

    Mercy

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    using "religious freedom" is not acceptable when you go and blow things up whenever you want to put a mosque there. How many Christians go and blow things up where they want a church?

    Golly, I HATE to be the one to point this out but "christians" were blowing up and tearing down the religious mosques and temples, etc., of others... and building churches over them... LONG before 911. A field trip to the Aztec Templo Mayor in Mexico City... and others in South America... which are now beneath various churches and cathedrals... will show that.

    Dear ones... "christians" waged "holy wars"... just as much, if not more... and LONG before some others did. And they killed innocent women, children, and elderly folk... as well as raped and pillaged as much as the best of 'em.

    Peace... the way that Christ gives it.

    A slave of Christ,

    SA, who continually shakes her at how "we" of such a YOUNG republic, repeatedly tend to forget everything that occurred more than, say, 20 years ago. No, wait... apparently, we forget everything that occurrs prior to a current presidency term...

  • wobble
    wobble

    Just slightly off topic, but I do not like the way the law has gone, or rather is used in this country, the U.K.

    Here people get in trouble simply because followers of Islam are involved in a situation,and they suddenly cry out "Religious persecution!"

    Just one example, a guy was thrown off a 'bus the other day for effing and blinding , but he claimed he was chucked off because he was Muslim.

    O.K I don't think anyone has the right to foment hatred, but quite often the situation has nothing to do with religion, but now we all have to tread on eggshells.

    How often does a Stand-up Comedian start his gag "There were these two Muslim guys...... "

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