Hello all, I'm new here. I was invited by a friend to view a thread that was 7 months old and I made my first posts in that thread but I think, being an old thread, I may miss out on talking to some of you. So, for a fresh start: I'm going to repost a few thoughts and start a few new thoughts.
First: let me introduce myself: (don't make fun! I know gearing this towards atheists you'll think some of these ideas are ridiculous) I am a Catholic girl, never was JW and have been very happy being Catholic. I have friends of other religions, a few atheist friends, etc... no one is shunned. It is my feeling that because I am Catholic I am a better person: it is through people at church I have learned to give to the poor, to love my enemies, not to be judgmental, etc... There is an ugly history to the Church, and there are leaders who do some awful things today: however I chalk that up to human flaws. Over all: the message is love; to treat one another as you would like to be treated. I believe people are put on the Earth to love one another.
John 15:17 This I command you: love one another.
Here is how I come to you now: an atheist friend has been showing me the errors to much of my way of thinking. I'm not so proud that I can't admit when I'm wrong, however I do have convictions. I am genuinely curious as to your thoughts on these topics.
For the sake of this specific thread I would like to partially put christianity in a box and not go into a debate specifically on religion. I shared my background with you because I know most of you are JW or once were JW so I thought it would only be fair to let you know my background. In this thread it's okay to touch the religion/talk about religion a little bit because I know that is how we get our concepts of God, but for the sake of this thread I would rather not go into bible verses and such... I get it: the atheists and agnostics think religion is very flawed. Bringing up the horrors of the Old Testament... etc... you'll only be beating a dead horse.
I want to ask in the absence of religion, what are your thoughts on God. Why is it that you do or do not have belief?
Here are reasons I'm having a hard time accepting there isn't a God. Please be patient with me, I know some things you may find ridiculous or moronic, or old arguments you have already made a thousand times. I'm going to bring up a few things that I've heard atheists say and why I have a hard time with it. Please be patient with me.
UNIVERSAL TRUTHS
Some atheists will say that it is evident due to the world being split into a ga-zillion religions that there are not any universal truths, and further, that we should come up with our own truths with the need only for oneself to approve it.
Aren't there some things agreed upon in most social societies and most legal systems to be true? I would say the majority of human kind have many of the same values; the same moral truths: We all tend to agree on things such as rape, child molestation and murder as being wrong. We tend to agree that the pursuit of happiness, a sense of family and love are good. For people who think otherwise it is generlly agreed by the general population that the person who thinks differently is in the wrong. We may be divided on the specifics... but, at least in my humble opinion, there are some things that ARE universal truths. Not to mention universal truths of an other nature: natural law: physics, math... etc...
As for allowing people to decide their own truths: Although most of us are moral, upstanding people (at least I'd like to believe in people) there are still the bad apples... Would you say that a person with a mental illness, or even more specifically, a person who is a sociopath/psychopath, only needs his truth and only needs his approval for that truth? Serial Killers tend to have high IQs and tend to be contributing members of society. If we base people deciding truths for themselves based on intellect then are we considering serial murders socially tolerable? Don't we have the moral obligation, regardless of creed or lack thereof, to say: "NO! His truth is not correct."????
Many concentrate on the differences of religions... what about the similarities? Why is it that nearly most cultures, most people have a concept of god(s) / higher power? The atheist maybe will say that it is a figment of our imagination. Why does our imagination lead us to this concept? An atheist will say that it is evident it is our imagination because god(s) most often come in human form - how arrogant. I have two thoughts to that: (for the purpose of this next question just accept for a moment a god exists) Wouldn't God present his/herself to us in a way we could relate to? Also, we look like our parents, if God is our Heavenly Father wouldn't we look like Him? As a theist I always considered God to be pure spirit and love, without the limitations of a body or gender... I've read that the original meaning behind the words "made in God's image" is that we are made as a "reflection of God" - I believed that God doesn't have a body and that I am like God, in God's image, because I have the ability to love. However to think in terms of spirit is so broad, to think of God as a Father and Brother, even as Mother (biblically: Wisdom is a She, and there is the Holy Spirit)... gives me an example.
INTELLIGENT DESIGN BEING EVIDENCE OF A CREATOR
The atheist will say it is all works of random events. The atheist will point out science and evolution and claim that the theist's explanation is magic. However thinking about science and how things work, how the universe came to be, the stars and the planets, life, etc... it all is amazing to me and even magical. Science isn't a proof against God.
I got this from an apologetic book (Beginning Apologetics, ISBN 1930084056) making a case for God, and I'm curious what you and everyone else here thinks:
Astrophysicists have shown that the universe began with an explosion so powerful that it staggers the imagination (often called the "Big Bang"). This awesome blast had to be regulated within an extremely narrow range in order for the iniverse to be formed. If the speed of the elements in the explosion had moved just a hiar faster or slower, there would have been only chaos instead of the amazingly complex, perfectly organized universe we know. Scientsists tell us that events appeared to have been "guided" to bring about a planet like earth, capable of sustaining intelligent life.
Amazingly, the bodies and movements of the universe appear to have been "deliberately" made to correspond to the operations of the human mind and to be intelligible to it. Like the human eye, the process of the material universe seem to scream "intelligent design!" Given the awesome size and complexity of the universe, it is very easy to see that this Intelligent Designer must be God.
Take a few minutes and check out these youtube clips... they present a case for God through science by a man who was an atheist and now is a christian.
MIRACLES AND HUMAN CONNECTION
There are people who believe they have had visions. They have heard voices. Some of these people are considered certifiably insane, however, some have not been considered crazy. I know it's nuts: but I have felt a few times that I have had supernatural things happen in my life where there is no explanation to explain it scientifically or logically. If we all dig deep we find things that we cannot explain. Even my atheist friend told me he saw a very specific light... now he discredits that to his mind playing tricks on him.
The theist will say, that for some people, God has been revealed: personal revelation. Catholics have saints, and have many, many documented miracles in the Common Era where they have done thorough investigations to find out if these miracles truly happened before they call them official. Christians have mystics, Muslims Sufism, Even buddhists depend on visions/signs etc to choose the next Dalai Lama...
In my life odd, supernatural things have happened to me a few times. I suffer from migraine headaches. I've had them since I was a teenager, maybe even before that. When I was in high school I belonged to a few charity organizations for teenage girls. None of the girls knew I had headaches. So one of the organizations held a halloween party and there was a fortune teller. I went to the fortune teller, ready to ask her when I would meet the love of my life and if Alex (the boy I was infatuated with at the time) and I were meant to be... before I have a chance to speak she tells me I get headaches. She further asks if I wouldn't mind her putting some oil on her fingers and if she could lay her hands on my temples... I was so taken back, I said "sure" - at any rate, she didn't cure my headaches (get them to this day) however, that she knew this about me!
I have had a priest tell me verbatim words I have said to God in prayer.
I believe I was visited by my grandmother after she past away. My aunt was there too, we both experienced it.
My mother had a dream about me and knew something about me that I never told her. She knew that I was in turmoil and upset first thing when she woke up, something I had been keeping a secret from her.
I have survived 2 major car accidents where the car was totaled which frankly I have no right to be alive today... I didn't even break a bone. --- to this the atheist will say "then why doesn't God save the hungry baby in africa" or "why do you get to live and someone else dies?" Honestly, I don't know why. However, believing in God, and, being Catholic (believing in heaven and eternity), then this life is less then a drop in the bucket. In this line of thinking: that baby may be in heaven right now and didn't have to suffer the trials of life. In death there is no suffering, problems, etc... it is the people left behind who suffer.
My question to atheists: if an angel of God were to visit you: wings, lights, music/trumpets playing, appearing out of thin air, the works. And the angel reached out for your hand, touched you and said something to the effect of "I am an angel. There is a God. God loves you now go and love others" and then disappear into thin air... After seeing, hearing and feeling this by touch would you believe that was an angel and this was true? OR would you believe an alien visited you? or would you believe that you are insane? Now to this question, add a second, third, even fourth witness all there at the same time, all had a turn holding hands with the angel and heard and saw the same thing... would you still call it insanity? or explain it by science and say it was an alien or whatever... or say you all are delusional and it is coincidence that you experienced the same delusion? What if this did not happen to you, but it happened to another group of people... you would not believe them? Even if there were large numbers who experienced it? Would you then just claim they were a cult? What if they did not have any cult-like behaviors (no secrecy, no shunning, no attempted suicide, no killing sprees: only a message of peace)?
If you actually took the time to read all this then thank you. As you see, I've had a lot on my mind.