Welcome, and thank you for sharing.
I read the entire story and was sorry to see it end so abruptly.
Welcome, and thank you for sharing.
I read the entire story and was sorry to see it end so abruptly.
Wow what a read! Gripping to the very end...then it ended abruptly...please tell us more . What happened to the psychotic teacher? Was she pregnant with your child? I am so sorry for all you have been through, you truly have been through the mill. Welcome to the board!
Welcome, enjoyed your story! NMKA
Good heavens! You have been through a lot.
I am with the poster that said that we probably won't see your family's life chronicled in the Awake anytime soon.
I do have one question. You said: he popped his clogs when I was two so I never knew him.
What does this mean? A heart attack? There were interesting terms in your story that we here in America don't use.
I also would like to know about your life now. What does your wife think of the JWs? Poor woman, seeing your brothers try to choke you! How is your relationship with your father? Is the teacher still alive?
Please post a part two.
Do you know Reniaa and her sister Chikkie?
Wait... are you the James that posted on another forum with Sally Wheatley?
Welcome Jamesmahon, - hopefully the rest of your immediate family will come to their senses and quit the KH , too.
wow, love to see the long version!
welcome to the forum!
wow, 9 pages of word documet... will print it and read it later
Thanks for all the comments. I know it cut off at the end but wanted to focus more on the JW side then other things. Anyway, to respond to a few questions:
MSDuckyIs your wife a witness? and What is a "pommie"?
My wife is not a witness no and struggles to understand any of this. She cannot get why I would want to spend my time on a discussion board like this.
A 'pom' or 'pommy' is a term australians use for English people - sort of like 'limey' in the States but much more frequently used. Whilst some people use it in a jovial way it is usually used negatively and as an insult and there are variations of it that are also common terms that if used against any other group would be considered just racist. For example 'lazy pom', 'pommy bastard' or 'pommy f***er'. When I was in Australia it was quite normal for people talking about 'hating the poms'. The etymology and racist undertones are covered quite well in wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_words_for_British#Pommy
Wanttoleave What happened to the psychotic teacher? Was she pregnant with your child?
This is a whole other story but to be brief if she was pregnant she never had the children. If she was pregnant it would have made me think that immaculate conception may have happened. She told me that with chemo she would end up miscarrying and end up burying the babies in the garden. I don't think I have to tell you anymore about her to know what she was like than this - except that she drove me to where my mum was buried to tell me all this. Well, I say buried - my mum was cremated, her ashes sent back to England to be buried with her mum and dad. My father agreed before she died to bury her but did so illegally. He just drove to the graveyard one night with my uncle and dug the ashes into where he thought her parents tombstone was. My mum did not want to spend any money on the tombstone or burial but it would be nice to at least have her name on a stone I suppose. Anyway, I spoke to psycho teacher for first time in ten years last year (another story) and she remembers none of this!. Apparently she was really ill and it has affected her memory. Sad thing is I believe she does not remember. So no, no children with her thank god and what is she doing? Still teaching. Head of year I believe as well.
Quandry What does popped his clogs mean? What does your wife think of the JWs? Poor woman, seeing your brothers try to choke you! How is your relationship with your father? Is the teacher still alive?
Sorry, forgot there may be Americans reading, although even within England and the rest of the UK there are terms and phrases that some parts use whereas others don't. 'Popped his clogs' just means died - sort of like 'kicked the bucket' but maybe slightly more gentle. When I lived in America I really noticed how, as is often stated, we are two peoples seperated by a common language. Not so much pronounciation but more how words, tone, phrase and humour are used. On a slightly related point it ammused me when it was the 4th of July when everyone was saying 'have a happy fourth'. I ended up saying to someone in Wallmart 'no I won't, i'm British'. Tongue in cheek of course but a bit lost on the poor girl.
My wife thinks the JWs are just wacky. She is not and never has been religious at all (she went to Sunday school as a child but that doesn't qualify for much. She only went because her mum is middle class, reads the Daily Mail and so culturally thought it was the thing to do). She hates my brothers and having seen how they behaved that night never wants them anywhere near our children.
Unfortunately I have not spoken to my father for over three years now. I skimmed over my relationship with him but it is complex. Up until I left home he always put himself first - as can be seen by his actions I described. Before he left my mum I don't really remember him much. When I came back from Australia we did grow quite close but can't have been that close to let me carry on with teacher woman. He never really understood me I don't think - he wanted sons like his brother had (well, he wanted a daughter actually but that is another story). They all stayed in Doncaster, went out drinking with their dad and stayed firmly working class. He had one gay son, two JWs and me who was going to uni.
When I picked up my A-level certificates I got an award from the school for 'doing well under adversity' and 'best results in the school'. I was embarressed to pick them up to be honest and never told my dad. The awards were mentioned in the local paper though and my dad went mad. 'who have you been talking to?' he wanted to know and then 'what has ever happened to you?'. I said that well if nothing else my mum had died when I was young. He said - and I remember this word for word. 'God, all that happened was your mum died'. There was a silence and he realised straight away what he had said. He then was really upset and quite sorry but problem is it was said.
He was upset about how the wedding was organised and never liked my mother in law but that is tangential to this I suppose.
When I was about 19 he had the first of a couple of heart attacks. It says a lot that after the first attack was the last time my brothers and I were altogether and we were walking to the hospital and none of us were that bothered if he passed away. However, after the first heart attack he seemed to change and softened quite a lot. His memory changed as well though and he told me that if his current wife (number 3) was around when mum died she would have looked after us all. This depsite her saying only a couple of years earlier that she only moved in with Dad because she knew we were all leaving soon and made our lives hell.
After Sarah became pregnant, we went round to Dad's and were eating dinner when he asked what my child would call his wife. She never had children. Dad wanted (rather she wanted) to be called 'nanna'. I thought that was disrespectful to my mum and also she had done nothing but be awful to me and my brothers. So I just said that children had a way of finding names for people.
My son was born and I just would call her Aunty XXX, whereas my dad insisted on calling her nanna. This went on for about three years and we would meet up about once every 6 weeks - we lived in Leeds at the time so Doncaster was about an hour away. Each visit would be tense though. My dad would say little and I could just see there was something that he really resented about me. I think he believes that I look down on him simply because I did not want to live in a depressed mining village like he did. I see the world as being a small place (especially this country) whereas his world is just small. But I will be really proud of my children if they want to make their own way in the world and make a life of their own. The Christmas before we moved up to Scotland my son wrote him a christmas card and put in 'to Grandad and Aunty XXX'. He rang up and just flipped. 'what is this Aunty XXX business? Do you know how upset XXX is? Why is she not nanna?' I just said 'because she is not his nanna'. 'But you said she could be called nanna'. 'No I didn't, and actually it upsets me that you go around calling her nanna'. I stayed calm but was furious. I am really quietly spoken most of the time but my wife says she knows when I am really angry because my accent drops, volume increases to normal speech levels and I become very articulate. Dad just started pouring out this diatribe at me how it was only because of his wife that we have contact. If it wasn't for her I would get nothing for Birthday or Christmas (? this one was just wierd. For our wedding they bought us a set of cheap plastic knives from Wilkinsons - sort of like the hardware section of Wallmart for the Americans reading this).
He siad he hated my mother in law who had brainwashed me to hate him (??? again had no idea where this had come from. My mother in law is a middle class alcoholic who always asks me what she should do. But she is middle class so dad cannot stand her. Mainly becuase she asked him for a bit of money towards my wedding). I said why hadn't he stepped in with the teacher situation. He said I was stubborn and wouldn't have listened. At 15 he knew something was going on. Good grief. In the end after had shouted at me for about ten minutes he said sorry. I said fine but I wasn't apologising because I had nothing to apologise for. He then shouted some more and asked what would happen to my son if my wife and I died - implying they would go to my mother in law which he would. I said that given his track record of putting himself before his own children, he wouldn't be going to him. He just hung up on me. A few days later my son got a christmas card saying can we have your new address in Scotland so that they could send my son birthday and christmas presents. I never gave it to him and have not had any contact since.
I was not a JW in Hull so never went to any meetings there and know no witnesses there. No, don't know Sally Wheaton either. Sorry, but thanks for asking.
Oh dear - I sometimes feel like debating the existence or otherwise of god with people but it is a waste of time. Suffice to say that your information out of no information argument is strange to say the least. I would say surely that god herself must have arisen from no information. You will say that god has been around forever. I will say (?). And then that you have reached a point where no questions can be asked and if you are comfortable there then fine. However, I prefer to live in a space that is inquisitive, open to being wrong and accepting that we may not have all the answers but are learning things all the time. It is the not knowing that I find really exciting. The day we know everything will be incredibly depressing, so I feel sorry for people who not only think they have the answer to everything ('if we do not understand then that is where god is') but also look to one book poured over for 2,000 years to get the answers. But whatever makes you happy I guess. I think we need a new set of terms around belief really. You could challenge my 'beliefs' with evidence and I would be happy to change them. I could challenge yours with facts (or I am sure you would say 'facts') and you would just get defensive, ignore what you did not want to hear and ultimately not change. I don't think calling both of these things 'belief' is helpful.
Thanks, but not a hope they will come out anytime soon. My nephew is 18 in 10 years and I have hope for him as I see from this discussion board how many young ones come out. Problem is his elder father is already isolating him - even from others in the congregation I am told by my cousin's daughter (who lives down south, is still a JW and occasionally picks things up on the grapevine). We will see. Cantleave gives me hope but I know my twin brother loves the power of it all so even if he himself believes it is rubbish he will never come out.
I am speechless beyond that......