Harmagedon-and Justice?

by scottmedeiros 6 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • scottmedeiros

    My wife gave the talk on the school tonight (is armagedon really nessasary?) specialy since god is Love

    but then my wife mentions that armagedon really demonstrates JaH's Justice---Then I started thinking and believe me not 8 months ago I was an elder and year and a half ago pioneer. Firm beliver. any how I started thinkin--- we see everyday in the news not including globaly the incredible Injustices even whem courts are invoved most times justice comes in the form of money for everone else and no real justice for the victim. it justice does prevail it takes ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff Yearsssssssssss. Now were told were made in gods image. As far as I'm concerned justice should always be brought about swiftly. thats why as an elder judicial matters were to be handled swiftly and for the sake of all especily protects congragation.

    Me being made in gods image I after so many years finaly say where is gods justice If He's real? Some of the reasons and excelent illistrations the slave has come out with about why god permits suffrig made sence. but Im sorry times UUUUUUPPPPP.

    Your thoughts

  • jwfacts

    Some of the reasons and excelent illistrations the slave has come out with about why god permits suffrig made sence.

    Not really if you think about them.

    • Does it make sense that God punishes children for the sins of their parents? Would it be fair to imprison you because your father committed murder? Then why should you die because a forefather called Adam sinned 6000 years ago? Even if we are all "dented cake tins" it still is not loving or just.
    • Does it make sense that the Ransom was paid for 2000 years ago, yet people still are being punished for being sinners?
      • One WTS excuse is that we needed the last 2000 years to try all the different forms of government, such as the recent trial of communism. Yet with the information age and technology there are untold new forms of government that will arise, so with that line of reasoning a few thousand more years are still needed to be fair.
    • Does it make sense that an evildoer from 1800AD will get a resurrection, but a person that dies at Armageddon will get eternal death?
  • scottmedeiros

    I agree with all of your comments, Jah does not seem like a god of Justice according to wt definition and my own logical conclusion. Sorry I did not study the religion or read other books sooner in life. Now Im awake!

  • hoser

    my wife gave the same talk. LOL

  • hoser

    got dinged for going overtime.

  • glenster

    If you want God's justice in the afterlife, which one? Can people earn it
    on their own terms? If you factor in God's prerogative, it's all fair game.


    If you want strictly interpersonal justice in the afterlife, which one? Bad
    people on whose terms? Once you've decided that, what do you do with them--
    they don't go to heaven and go here or there, or bad people are rehabilitated
    and everyone goes? It's not a strictly interpersonal concept, though, so
    there's not much point in belaboring the deliberation.

    In the meantime, the easiest thing to say is that you can try to be just
    yourself. Christianity is a faith, and you can leave the final justice part
    up to God ("justice is mine" etc.).

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    I wish someone would take the time and explain how Armegeddon is what the Jehovah's Witnesses think it is.

    Most Christians believe in Armegeddon; however, prophecy is clear. Armegeddon will happen in the Middle East, in an area just north of Jerusalem. Both Old and New Testaments declare:

    • The Lord will set his hand a "second time" to gather Judah back to the land of their fathers (see Isaiah 11);
    • The land of Jerusalem will blossom and become productive;
    • The Jews will rebuild their temple after the manner of Solomon's Temple;
    • The Lord will bring down "all nations" against Jerusalem (see Zechariah 12-14);
    • In that day will the Lord will fight for Jerusalem, and all who try to destroy Jerusalem will, in turn, be destroyed;
    • The Lord will raise up two prophets to smite Jerusalem's enemies (Gog, The Beast, see Ezekiel 38, Revelation 11);
    • After the antichrist has murdered the two prophets, they will be raised three and a half days later;
    • Jesus will return and destroy Gog and most of his armies (it will take the Jews seven years to burn the implements of war)
    • Jesus will stand on the Mount of Olives and the Jews, seeing the wounds in his hands, will realize they killed their Messiah
    • There will be mourning and lamentation throughout the land;
    • Those in Egypt and other countries that came down on Jerusalem that will not come up to celebrate the feast of the tabernacles in Jerusalem will be visited with draught and the plague.

    These prophecies are Armegeddon, and they don't bear the slightest resemblance to what the Witnesses predict. In fact, one would have to apply "spiritual" meanings to all of these scriptures to find any other fulfillment, and there are no instances in which the Jews used anything but literal fulfillments. The JW leadership has declared that there are reasons to believe that the event will be global: "Armageddon cannot be just a conflict among earthly nations, since Jeremiah stated that 'those slain by Jehovah' will be scattered 'from one end of the earth clear to the other end of the earth.' (Jeremiah 25:33) Thus, Armageddon is not a human war confined to a particular location in the Middle East. It is Jehovah’s war, and it is global." Actually, this is a figure of speech. In Young's Literal Translation, it states: "Wasting hath come unto the end of the earth, For a controversy hath Jehovah with nations, He hath executed judgment for all flesh, The wicked! He hath given them to the sword, An affirmation of Jehovah.Thus said Jehovah of Hosts: Lo, evil is going out from nation to nation, And a great whirlwind is stirred up from the sides of the earth.And the pierced of Jehovah have been in that day, From the end of the earth even unto the end of the earth, They are not lamented, nor gathered, nor buried, For dung on the face of the ground they are." In Zechariah 12, the Lord states that he will bring "all nations" against Jerusalem.

    The KJV states: "Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem." In our day, Jerusalem's enemies are indeed, literally, "all the people round about." (see Zechariah 12) Now notice that "all that burden themselves with [Jerusalem] shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it." So it will not be a global event. All nations will be gathered together against it. Where? The valley of Megiddo. (The JWs say it's a mountain, but it's really a location in the midst of a great valley. Jerusalem's enemies will come down that valley as they attempt to take the city.)

    Again, the JWs completely ignore the center of the battle -- Jerusalem. They believe Megiddo is a symbol and they do the standard magician's trick of distracting you with explanations of nuclear devices and halocaust, all the while ignoring Jerusalem entirely!

    The Witness leadership knows nothing of biblical prophecy. When there are two scriptures that may be conflicting due to figures of speech, they simply choose the ones who suit their own preconceived notions of what they believe will happen. If one tried to use those methods to interpret the messianic prophecies, we would have no Messiah at all, for he would be merely a symbol, nothing more!

    Based on the above, look at the monumental amount of scriptures they have to ignore to get to where they want to get. Those who buy into the WBTS interpretation will find themselves disappointed time and time again. It's the primary reason they've been wrong so many times before. (In fact, they have yet to be correct about anything prophetic!)

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