Eight Marks of a Mind Control Cult

by Bangalore 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Walter Martin is a wacko, and I'm no JW. He claims to have had an advanced degree he didn't have and he didn't really show an understanding of the scriptures. He always reminded me of the kind of guy who would slip a gold cap onto a tooth before going out and giving a sermon. As someone who's studied the gun control issue for years, I found the same sort of intellectual dishonesty with John Lott (though I'm on the same side politically). Once someone does something dishonest, I'm not quick to believe them. (Lott would write articles for publication, then write "letters" praising himself under psuedonyms. Do a Google search.)

    While the Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong, in my view, that's a long way from saying they're damned to hell or are a "cult." Those who claim to know that people are damned for their beliefs should be more concerned with their own souls. It nowhere says in the scriptures that anyone will be damned for their sincere beliefs. It's neither just or merciful, two of the crowning attributes of God. People who presume to speak for God are prophets, either true or false. I'll let you all decide which Walter Martin falls into. Christ's message was one of love and understanding. Martin pretended to "love" those whom he condemned, but it was love based in warning.

    As much as I don't agree with the Witnesses, I warn people who want to rip their friends and family from the religion without having something to replace it with. People who have their belief systems torn away from them can lose their entire reason for living. They've even been known to commit suicide and divorce those who did the tearing. When Jesus said he would be a devisive person, he meant it for those who accepted him being opposed by those who didn't. He didn't mean to destroy the faith of others for "Him," or for "love" or any other ultimately self-centered reason.

    Since Martin is dead, I'm sure he's probably already taken the issue up with those on the other side. I've never held much respect for those who think everyone else but them are damned. One noted minister was heard years ago arguing pointedly about something with his wife. When they got to the checkout line, the wife stormed off down an aisle, turned around and said, "If you're correct, dear, there's only going to be two people in Heaven -- you and God!

    P.S. -- I know there are such things as dangerous cults, and when a religion forces a person from having contact with their family and depriving them of food and sleep, or making them eat bad food, that's something completely different. Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, and Worldwide Church of God are not cults any more than early Christianity was a cult.

    Walter Martin...claims to have had an advanced degree he didn't have and he didn't really show an understanding of the scriptures.

    If you have some sort of proof for this accusation please provide it.

    Regarding the second half of the above statement you obviously have no earthly clue what you are talking about. I have it from the former producer of The Bible Answerman (during Dr. Martin's time and during Hank Hannegraf's time) that Dr. Martin never A. screened calls (meaning he took all callers), and B. did not have researchers at his side "cribbing" the answers to him, as Mr. Hannegraf has and does.

  • Bangalore

    Part 8.



    No answer?

  • thetrueone
    Check out this list and see how much of this relates to the WTS/JWS
    Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.

    1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

    2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

    3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

    4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

    5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

    6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

    7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

    8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

    9. The group/leader is always right.

    10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

    Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.

    1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

    2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

    3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

    4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

    5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

    6. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

    7. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

    8. Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

    9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

    10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.
  • Bangalore

    I would say that practically all the 10 signs on your list apply to some extent regarding the WTS.


  • debator

    All cult lists are subjective and rely on the person cold reading their own group into the list. Truly objective people can see the lists are so general as to be applied to any group either religious or non-religious that a person commits themselves too. Take the first century christians a couple of scriptures would easily fit them on that list.

    Luke 14:26
    "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.

    John 12:25
    The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

    1 John 2:15
    [ Do Not Love the World ] Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

    1 John 4:6

    6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit [a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

    Any life we choose comes with rules even if they are simply the law of the Governments, like if you steal and end up in prison for it. Cult is overused and misused word to try and manipulate an emotional appeal out of people. While some genuine Cults exist, these lists are deliberately generalised to cover very general points so that any group can be read into them.

  • isaacaustin

    A sign of cults is to create their own "Jesus", and you must come to them to be right with God. Debator, your attempted reference to say 1st century Christianity falls apart because those texts quoted were spoken by Jesus himself. A cult, such as the JWs, must, according to their leadership, come to them to be right with God.

  • thetrueone

    Cults are manipulative and exploitive arbitrations created by narcissistic egotistical power seeking men.

    J Rutherford was just that type of man.

    We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit [a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

    Its quoted scriptures such as this which congers up idealogical self expressions of spiritualism.

    And people wonder why there are so many religions in the world.

    By the way the JWS are the only true and honest faith guided by god......... really.

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